-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Risk of lead poisoning from indoor range?
- Thread starter rufunky
- Start date
I have no empirical data. At one range I belong to we are asked to sweep up after shooting and it is amazing how much powder and other unknown crap goes into the dustpan. I figure it just can't be good for you so I quit shooting indoors. Besides that, it's way too loud.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
There probably are a bunch of EPA/OSHA/etc regs on the issue but IMO those are meaningless/worthless to shooters- as they can't really make their own measurements.
Best thing to do if you use an indoor facility on a regular basis is to get your lead levels checked by a doctor. Since I use an indoor range maybe 3
times a year (and that's pushing it) I don't even bother.
The people most at risk seem to be instructors/range staff, or people who use an indoor range on a regular basis, especially a poorly ventilated one.
-Mike
Best thing to do if you use an indoor facility on a regular basis is to get your lead levels checked by a doctor. Since I use an indoor range maybe 3
times a year (and that's pushing it) I don't even bother.
The people most at risk seem to be instructors/range staff, or people who use an indoor range on a regular basis, especially a poorly ventilated one.
-Mike
I know there are some on this board who have been affected after years of shooting indoors and have taken to wearing respirators. They will probably chime in shortly.
Regarding sweeping indoor ranges: no @#$%@#$% way!! Not with out a proper respirator (not those little paper masks with the rubber bands). Gardner R&P hoses down the range periodically. Members are required to pick up thier brass, but that's no problem.
Regarding sweeping indoor ranges: no @#$%@#$% way!! Not with out a proper respirator (not those little paper masks with the rubber bands). Gardner R&P hoses down the range periodically. Members are required to pick up thier brass, but that's no problem.
Its a serious issue. When shooting as a junior, I had my lead levels tested and they were so high I could not shoot indoors for 6 months and I had to be monitored until my levels went back down. All the bullseye guys at my home range wear lead face resperators when practicing.
Forgot to add: I did have my lead levels tested during my yearly physical, just in case. Doctor didn't think there was any reason to, but was willing to do it. Came back clean so I figure I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.
Because I work as a range officer at the S&W Sports Shooting I have to have a blood test every six months to have my lead level checked. I spend around 48 hours on a month on the S&W public range and my lead level has never been in the high end.
I'm not apposed to wearing a respirator. Not sure what I would need to buy though.
It amazes me that the gun clubs are not required to put in some kind of "approved" ventilation system to prevent these problems but apartment owners are legally required to have LED paint removed before renting a unit.
It amazes me that the gun clubs are not required to put in some kind of "approved" ventilation system to prevent these problems but apartment owners are legally required to have LED paint removed before renting a unit.
S&W's ranges are VASTLY superior in just about every way, and in air handling in particular, compared to the many small local ranges scattered around the north east. Because they have actual employees the DO have meet the OSHA standards and get a third party in to certify them as being in compliance.
If that were the case most 75% of the indoor ranges in MA would probably be closed, and most clubs could not afford to make the required changes to keep them open. While I don't like these kinds of setups, IMHO I'd rather have people make their own decisions about lead safety than pull the nanny state business on them. We have enough of that as
it is.
-Mike
There are very few indoor ranges that I've shot in that have adequate ventilation - the S&W range is one of the few. I can't at the moment think of any of the others, but there are a few (emphasize, few) out there.
During the Bullseye season (roughly Sep to Apr), I'm in the range about 4 nights a week, and maybe half that often the rest of the year. I had my serum (blood) lead level tested last spring, and it came back at 31 ug/dl (micrograms per deciliter - "normal" is something less than 10 or so), which was enough to be reported by law to the Mass. Dept. of Public Health, who sent me a nice letter letting me know how to reduce my occupational lead exposure. Our tax dollars at work.
The only guys I shoot with who don't have documented lead problems are the ones who haven't had it tested. If you shoot much indoors at any range that is less than state-of-the-art you have a lead problem, period. I now shoot with a respirator fitted with P100 filters and I would no more think of not using it than I would of not using my glasses or ear muffs. About half the guys on my Bullseye teams now wear respirators and I expect that will rise to nearly 100% in the next year or so.
Lead is seriously bad for your nervous system and is nothing to mess around with. I'll shortly be going back for another test, and if my level hasn't come down substantially I'll be giving up shooting Bullseye for good; not something I want to think about. One guy on one of my teams was up in the 60s, but was able to get back into the 20s in a year of conscientious respirator use. I'm hoping my results will be as good.
During the Bullseye season (roughly Sep to Apr), I'm in the range about 4 nights a week, and maybe half that often the rest of the year. I had my serum (blood) lead level tested last spring, and it came back at 31 ug/dl (micrograms per deciliter - "normal" is something less than 10 or so), which was enough to be reported by law to the Mass. Dept. of Public Health, who sent me a nice letter letting me know how to reduce my occupational lead exposure. Our tax dollars at work.
The only guys I shoot with who don't have documented lead problems are the ones who haven't had it tested. If you shoot much indoors at any range that is less than state-of-the-art you have a lead problem, period. I now shoot with a respirator fitted with P100 filters and I would no more think of not using it than I would of not using my glasses or ear muffs. About half the guys on my Bullseye teams now wear respirators and I expect that will rise to nearly 100% in the next year or so.
Lead is seriously bad for your nervous system and is nothing to mess around with. I'll shortly be going back for another test, and if my level hasn't come down substantially I'll be giving up shooting Bullseye for good; not something I want to think about. One guy on one of my teams was up in the 60s, but was able to get back into the 20s in a year of conscientious respirator use. I'm hoping my results will be as good.
I understand where your coming from. The only problem is I bet most people are not even aware this is a problem. IMHO,these places should at least have to make people aware before allowing them to use the club.This leaves people with the ability to make an informed decision.As far as I know this is not required (Please correct me if I am wrong).
I am aware of lead poisoning because as a baby my mother had rented one of these apartments with Led paint and for what ever reason I decided it tasted good. After being tested for years because of my bad behavior problems growing up, at 16 I was diagnosed as having temporal lobe epilepsy said to most likely have been caused by the lead poisoning.
about 9 months ago mine was at 29, I was shooting indoors alot and walking down range to tape targets, I have stopped shooting indoors and my level is down to 14, with better reloading habits, it should come down lower.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Messages
- 57,031
- Likes
- 21,178
My first club had essentially NO working ventilation system on their indoor range. The "residue" when blowing my nose for ~2 days after each range session (I shot usually alone or with 1 other person on a 16-position range) every Sunday afternoon was gross to put it mildly. After a lot of years and hearing them talk about solving the problem for all of those years, but doing nothing, I finally resigned from said club. I had quit shooting indoors there sometime back in the 1980s.
This is why I LOVE Braintree R&P!! The HEPA filtration system on the newer indoor range makes it a pleasure to shoot there. It is very similar to the setup at S&W Shooting Center.
I had my lead level tested a year or two ago and it was way down in the "don't worry about it" range.
This is why I LOVE Braintree R&P!! The HEPA filtration system on the newer indoor range makes it a pleasure to shoot there. It is very similar to the setup at S&W Shooting Center.
I had my lead level tested a year or two ago and it was way down in the "don't worry about it" range.
Mil-Dot
Instructor
I brought up the same questions a while back. These are the responses that I received:
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37266&highlight=indoor+range
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37266&highlight=indoor+range
Dick, will you give us recommendations on what respirators to look for and where to look?
Duxprep
NES Member
I shoot bullseye and whenever I'm indoors (most of the year) we all use this 3M half face 6000 respirator. It's thin and won't interfere with your shooting. Make sure you get the 3M 2091 Filters as they are rated for lead dust. You can buy these online anywhere - shop around
http://www.gemplers.com/product/G10705/3M-Half-Mask-Respirator-6000-Series
http://www.gemplers.com/product/G10705/3M-Half-Mask-Respirator-6000-Series
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2005
- Messages
- 1,897
- Likes
- 708
You will find reliable information here:
http://www.rangeinfo.org/resource_l...ty Management&SubCat=Environmental Management
http://www.rangeinfo.org/resource_l...ty Management&SubCat=Environmental Management
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
As previously stated there really aren't any codes that I'm aware of that would apply to a person joining a club and using the indoor range. My best advice is if you don't like the range then don't use it. It's a private club so in my layman's opinion as a member you're just as responsible as any other for everyone's safety.
OSHA would certainly apply to any employee of a range or persons required to use the range as part of their employment.
If you can actually 'feel' the exposure you're way past any safe level. That would be like saying I'll put my seat belt on when I feel the car collide. Blood tests are the best check.
Good hygiene helps. Wash your hands with COLD water. Hot can cause steam and make the lead volatilize and present an inhalation risk. Smoking on the range is a great way to increase your exposure. The lead on your hands gets transferred to the paper on the cigarette and then you inhale it as it burns. The problem with masks is they rarely fit properly. You need to be clean shaven to get a good seal and even then you should perform a leak test.
As far as children and lead go, it's quite common for children to be tested around six month intervals these days. It's nearly impossible to tell exactly where a single child becomes exposed. It could certainly be their home but there are countless exposure sources: playgrounds, relatives' homes, day cares, cloths, food, dust, water. Remember when we had lead gas? That lead is still around and it's not going anywhere anytime soon--lead is an element and therefore doesn't breakdown.
The Mass delead law is a horrible piece of legislation. The legislature basically said everyone delead your house. Then no one did it. It comes up most often in the tenant-landlord relationship because it's the landlord's responsibility to delead but the tenant is the one at risk and that creates a liability.
OSHA would certainly apply to any employee of a range or persons required to use the range as part of their employment.
If you can actually 'feel' the exposure you're way past any safe level. That would be like saying I'll put my seat belt on when I feel the car collide. Blood tests are the best check.
Good hygiene helps. Wash your hands with COLD water. Hot can cause steam and make the lead volatilize and present an inhalation risk. Smoking on the range is a great way to increase your exposure. The lead on your hands gets transferred to the paper on the cigarette and then you inhale it as it burns. The problem with masks is they rarely fit properly. You need to be clean shaven to get a good seal and even then you should perform a leak test.
As far as children and lead go, it's quite common for children to be tested around six month intervals these days. It's nearly impossible to tell exactly where a single child becomes exposed. It could certainly be their home but there are countless exposure sources: playgrounds, relatives' homes, day cares, cloths, food, dust, water. Remember when we had lead gas? That lead is still around and it's not going anywhere anytime soon--lead is an element and therefore doesn't breakdown.
The Mass delead law is a horrible piece of legislation. The legislature basically said everyone delead your house. Then no one did it. It comes up most often in the tenant-landlord relationship because it's the landlord's responsibility to delead but the tenant is the one at risk and that creates a liability.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2007
- Messages
- 6,022
- Likes
- 757
Wash with cold water not hot water.
And blow out your nose and wash your face as well.
Dust settles so try and keep a dedicated pair of shoes and socks.
I try and have a range-only set of clothing that I wash separately.
If you have small children, babies or an expecting woman I would tell you to keep your clothing completely separate. Just in case. Take them off in the garage or something.
And blow out your nose and wash your face as well.
Dust settles so try and keep a dedicated pair of shoes and socks.
I try and have a range-only set of clothing that I wash separately.
If you have small children, babies or an expecting woman I would tell you to keep your clothing completely separate. Just in case. Take them off in the garage or something.
After shooting I go straight to the basement and wash my clothing...then a quick shower...I have seen what lead does to young ones and it is not pretty. Kids get tested every 6 months and thankfully they are a 4 and a 3 according to the blood tests...
I started shooting .22 Bullseye in the Nashoba Valley Pistol League for Westford this Fall. There a some clubs with decent ventilation systems, and ones with really crappy ones. Luckily Westford's seems pretty good, I understand it was completely replaced a year or two ago. A few of them aren't so good, I've walked out of with a nasty sweet taste in my mouth. Some of them you stand and look at the plume of smoke during slow fire that just doesn't move! Based on some of Dick's previous posts I picked up a 3M mask and some P100 filters. Unfortunately I got a medium when I need a large. That reminds me, I'll place my order for a large mask this evening.
I know someone mentioned getting the mask to seal properly is very difficult; a question- is a semi-sealed mask still better than none or do the filters have enough of a pressure-drop across them that it really needs to be a secure fit to work at all?
I would not categorize it as "very difficult". In fact it is rather easy. With no filter installed put your hand over the hole and breath in. The mask should suck to your face. If it doesn't, try another. I've even had masks get a good seal wearing a beard.
Matt
