Yup. My local indoor range was built in the 50s and I highly doubt the ventihilation system has been upgraded much over the years due to the lead/copper plated bullet restriction. I absolutely refuse to shoot there only if I need to test a couple reloads late at night. Always shoot outdoors if I can. Though there's always a low light indoor stage at IDPA matches and the indoor winter USPSA matches at Mystic Valley. Mystic seems to have a good ventilation system but I'm sure it can't eliminate all of the lead dust.
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Risk of lead poisoning from indoor range?
- Thread starter rufunky
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I also keep D-lead handwipes in my rangebag and use them before I get in my car and leave the range. Though I'm sure there's lead dust on my clothes and especially my shoes....
Ideally, you'll want to wash your clothes as soon as you get home and separate from your other clothes. But I don't usually do that. Also the amount of lead on your shoes has to be very high. May want to have a dedicated pair for shooting indoors and leave them outside your house if possible.
I have a full face respirator for work and considered using it when I'm shooting indoors but it's just too akward and heavy with the filters hanging off. Not to mention you must ensure you have a clean shaven face or else you won't get a good seal. I always have a beard....
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I quit my first gun club in 2000 over this (and other things). No air intake on the indoor range (built in the 1960s I was told) and I shot in there every Sunday (in the 1970s-1980s) by myself or with one other person, lead only allowed, results were that for 4 days after every time I blew my nose it was black crud. Spin forward to about 7 years ago and the then pistol chairman of that first club tells me that he had reportable lead levels and they were still discussing what to do about the range.
BR&P has a good air handling system but I can't recall what year I last shot indoors there. I shoot outdoors at both clubs or not at all.
BR&P has a good air handling system but I can't recall what year I last shot indoors there. I shoot outdoors at both clubs or not at all.
I'm respirator certified through work (chemical industry). Like what's been said here, anyone spending a lot of time shooting indoors would be well advised to wear a HEPA respirator. Your cheapy N95 dust mask is not going to cut it as the lead dust is quite fine and can pass through the paper, which probably doesn't fit the face well anyway. Luckily, a half face (nose and mouth covering) respirator with HEPA filters is not expensive and can be quite compact and relatively light weight.
You can do a basic fit test on your own. Once you've put on the face mask, cover the filters with your palms and inhale hard. If the mask is fitting right, you should feel a strong vacuum on your face that doesn't have leaks around the outside. Likewise, you can do a positive pressure test by covering the outlet valve and exhaling. A properly fitting mask will remained sealed. Do the same tests while bending over, turning your head side to side and up and down, and when wrinkling your face and working your jaw. Test your respirator fit in the same way you'll be using it. Wear whatever PPE you will be using and assume the shooting position. Facial hair will prevent a good fit, some can get away with packing their beard with grease, but clean shaven is best. Track your filter buy dates and replace when appropriate.
A respirator labors your breathing. Be mindful of this, especially if you have any respiratory or cardiac health issues.
This might seem like overkill, but if you're doing a lot of shooting indoors, it might be worth having a proper respirator fit test performed. They hook your respirator up to pressure monitoring equipment and can precisely detect any leaks. Not sure how much these cost, but it may be worth the money. Lead poisoning is no joke. Regularly testing your blood lead levels is a smart and easy way to track your exposure.
Range cleanliness varies quite a bit. Sweeping the range leaves a lot of fine dust behind and probably sends a lot airborne too. If the range doesn't have very good air circulation with HEPA filters you can guarantee that there is airborne lead waiting to be inhaled.
Anyone who reloads should wear a respirator until the brass has been cleaned.
As far as OSHA, I won't trash them as "nanny". Working in the chemical industry, we see OSHA doing good work. University students are not considered workers and academic labs are not under OSHA authority unless they hire lab assistants (which is somewhat rare). University labs also have much, much worse safety than industrial labs. Hurting and killing students is free (except bad PR), while hurting employees is expensive. OSHA fines are good incentives to mind reasonable safety standards. Most "stupid" OSHA regulation have an injury or fatality that prompted it's existence. OSHA works.
You can do a basic fit test on your own. Once you've put on the face mask, cover the filters with your palms and inhale hard. If the mask is fitting right, you should feel a strong vacuum on your face that doesn't have leaks around the outside. Likewise, you can do a positive pressure test by covering the outlet valve and exhaling. A properly fitting mask will remained sealed. Do the same tests while bending over, turning your head side to side and up and down, and when wrinkling your face and working your jaw. Test your respirator fit in the same way you'll be using it. Wear whatever PPE you will be using and assume the shooting position. Facial hair will prevent a good fit, some can get away with packing their beard with grease, but clean shaven is best. Track your filter buy dates and replace when appropriate.
A respirator labors your breathing. Be mindful of this, especially if you have any respiratory or cardiac health issues.
This might seem like overkill, but if you're doing a lot of shooting indoors, it might be worth having a proper respirator fit test performed. They hook your respirator up to pressure monitoring equipment and can precisely detect any leaks. Not sure how much these cost, but it may be worth the money. Lead poisoning is no joke. Regularly testing your blood lead levels is a smart and easy way to track your exposure.
Range cleanliness varies quite a bit. Sweeping the range leaves a lot of fine dust behind and probably sends a lot airborne too. If the range doesn't have very good air circulation with HEPA filters you can guarantee that there is airborne lead waiting to be inhaled.
Anyone who reloads should wear a respirator until the brass has been cleaned.
As far as OSHA, I won't trash them as "nanny". Working in the chemical industry, we see OSHA doing good work. University students are not considered workers and academic labs are not under OSHA authority unless they hire lab assistants (which is somewhat rare). University labs also have much, much worse safety than industrial labs. Hurting and killing students is free (except bad PR), while hurting employees is expensive. OSHA fines are good incentives to mind reasonable safety standards. Most "stupid" OSHA regulation have an injury or fatality that prompted it's existence. OSHA works.
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MadatMarek
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Esca Tech is the company that makes D-Lead wipes, they also make a hand soap and products for surface testing for lead contamination. Respirators and soap, especially no seeeping is a good start. Everyone will metabolize things at different rates and lead can be more difficult for some than others. The “I’ve shot and reloaded but never had my lead tested and I don’t need to” Guy may In fact have a low count, but more than likely not. The danger is in buying into that talk, be prudent get tested, wash your hands. No eating, drinking, picking nose, butt or rubbing your eyes with your dirty hands. Read about the Niosh and OSHA approves Navy standards for air handling systems. All available on the inter webs. We have state of the art air handling at Hopedale, and if we did it than any range can.
Rat187
NES Member
I spent at least an hour everyday cleaning my 2 mini-guns, 8 barrels each, two M-60's for nearly 15 months soaked from head to toe in a slurry of JP-4 (jet engine fuel), lead dust and heavy metals from tracer rounds residue. Hell ain't nuttin wrong with me. Well actually, I have be fighting off aggressive skin cancers since I was 45, so maybe the stuff ain't good for you. The army knew of the problem in 1963 Project WEST (weapons exhaust study). Meh 'I'm a walking talking miracle from Viet-Nam'
This song went through my head when reading this thread
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CtEvMIImOc
This song went through my head when reading this thread
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CtEvMIImOc
Yeah, solvents are an added dimension. Toxins that poorly pass through the skin might readily do so when dissolved in a solvent like Hoppe's #9, which is mostly kerosene and alcohol if I remember correctly. Definitely should wear gloves when handling that stuff.
JayMcB
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Southboro Rod and Gun just spent $130k+ to upgrade the ventilation in the indoor. They also got rid of the brooms.
In fairness, we HEPA vacuumed before every Jr. Rifle session, even before the upgrade.
The parents of the Jr. Rifle kids also did a range scrub before every season. Wipes, TSP, masks, etc
In fairness, we HEPA vacuumed before every Jr. Rifle session, even before the upgrade.
The parents of the Jr. Rifle kids also did a range scrub before every season. Wipes, TSP, masks, etc
I just got my letter from the State of MA telling me that recent blood tests showed high lead counts and gave me a pamphlet on reducing lead exposure. I try to minimize my indoor shooting because of it.
lead is strange and people get different results around it. I spent many years picking bullets from the back stop and my dad would smelt and cast bullets on the tailgate of the truck. Also handle a lot of lead wheel weights, help my dad de lead the rental properties also after he got his little state certificate to do so from the state, funny thing is the only thing they really teach you is common sense, wear protection certified for lead dust keep dust down and toss all lead paint in heavy plastic bags and toss it.
I have had my lead levels tested since 2003 and yet to have anything remotely elevated, i cast bullets and fishing weights shot 100s of thousands of 22lr with a good 20-30% indoors,
A few doctors have had different things to say. My personal doctor says you need to eat a lot of lead to be a issue?
be careful and mindful of what your doing around the lead and everything else out there.
I dont remember the measurement name but last i looked at the results it was .9? my doctor said he would not even worry until i was past 5
I have had my lead levels tested since 2003 and yet to have anything remotely elevated, i cast bullets and fishing weights shot 100s of thousands of 22lr with a good 20-30% indoors,
A few doctors have had different things to say. My personal doctor says you need to eat a lot of lead to be a issue?
be careful and mindful of what your doing around the lead and everything else out there.
I dont remember the measurement name but last i looked at the results it was .9? my doctor said he would not even worry until i was past 5
A buddy of mine has a daughter that had to stop shooting competition 22lr because her lead levels went through the roof. Her levels were tested when she first started and then again 6 months later......it seems to effect people differently. Shame cuz she was very good! She switched to archery and is doing well with that.
Bottom line....only way to know is get your blood work done .
I don't
-change clothes when I get home from the range
-take sneakers off when I get home from the range
-wash clothes I wore to the range separately
-normally shoot indoors (maybe 10 times through the winter)
I do
-wash hands with cold water when i'm done shooting at the range
-wash face with cold water when I get home from the range
-wear nitrile gloves from harbor freight when I clean guns (as much as I love the smell of Hoppes on my hands) would rather be safe
-always try to shoot outside as long as the weather is tolerable
-change clothes when I get home from the range
-take sneakers off when I get home from the range
-wash clothes I wore to the range separately
-normally shoot indoors (maybe 10 times through the winter)
I do
-wash hands with cold water when i'm done shooting at the range
-wash face with cold water when I get home from the range
-wear nitrile gloves from harbor freight when I clean guns (as much as I love the smell of Hoppes on my hands) would rather be safe
-always try to shoot outside as long as the weather is tolerable
the indoor range at my club as two fans. One behind the line sucking in fresh air and one down range ventilating it to the outside. Very noisy to use. If I shoot indoors I use them. I haven't shot indoors since I stopped competing years ago. But when I was shooting a lot most people I ran into when I went to the indoor range didn't have the fan on. I always used the fan.
Blood lead tests are usually covered under insurance without any additional billing. Just say that you're renovating an old home or that you restore antiques or that you garden in potentially contaminated soil and want to be safe rather than sorry.
The Seattle Times already did a series Loaded with Lead in 2014. Believe me, the antis have been trying to ban leaded ammo for years since it was known to be an issue in indoor ranges. It's why commercial ranges are regulated. Private clubs on the other hand are similar to private homes where different rules apply because individuals are gauging their own tolerance for risk and personal safety measures. Even old poorly ventilated ranges are perfectly safe is using non-toxic ammo. Leaded ammo can still be reasonably safe in an old range if the backstop is changed for a rubber one and everyone using TMJ or fully coated rounds which encapsulate the lead(reduces airborne lead 80%+ as the only exposure is primers).
The Feds have lots of data on this (CDC, FBI, OSHA, & DOD do studies regularly on the issue) and it's hard for the anti-gun people to claim a public health crisis when no one is getting sick from range related lead poisoning without being really careless or ignorant. Think of how many indoor ranges there are in the country, and maybe only a dozen people are year are admitted to hospitals for lead poisoning related to ranges.
Frankly, more children are exposed to dangerous levels of lead in old schools, pipes, plumbing fixtures (porcelain) and contaminated schoolyards/playgrounds each year than shooters are at ranges.
The Seattle Times already did a series Loaded with Lead in 2014. Believe me, the antis have been trying to ban leaded ammo for years since it was known to be an issue in indoor ranges. It's why commercial ranges are regulated. Private clubs on the other hand are similar to private homes where different rules apply because individuals are gauging their own tolerance for risk and personal safety measures. Even old poorly ventilated ranges are perfectly safe is using non-toxic ammo. Leaded ammo can still be reasonably safe in an old range if the backstop is changed for a rubber one and everyone using TMJ or fully coated rounds which encapsulate the lead(reduces airborne lead 80%+ as the only exposure is primers).
The Feds have lots of data on this (CDC, FBI, OSHA, & DOD do studies regularly on the issue) and it's hard for the anti-gun people to claim a public health crisis when no one is getting sick from range related lead poisoning without being really careless or ignorant. Think of how many indoor ranges there are in the country, and maybe only a dozen people are year are admitted to hospitals for lead poisoning related to ranges.
Frankly, more children are exposed to dangerous levels of lead in old schools, pipes, plumbing fixtures (porcelain) and contaminated schoolyards/playgrounds each year than shooters are at ranges.
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