Service / carry pistols?

SFC13557 said:
If I only have one handgun it would be G17/19, no problem with stovepipes but if I don't have a death grip on Glock sometimes the slide doesn't lock back on last round.
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What do you think about the grip angle in comparison to other pistols. Do you find has a natural point or do you go for that aggressive pinch/lean in that Glocks need to have facilitated in training?
 
SwampYankee42 said:
Why dont you at least go green and pay for the privilege to be a boot licking mega douche on a forum that celebrates freedom? Freedom that is stolen at the barrel of a gun by the boys in blue who blindly obey the orders of a corrupt state
It's the least you could do
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Why would he pay $20 to be a "bootlicker" when he can do whatever it is he is doing for free?
 
DrummerGunner said:
If an order is unlawful then it by definition is against the law and should not be followed. Why ask such an obvious question?
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Well, as you mentioned, this is a gun forum. And when NY passed the SAFE act, lots of Chiefs and Sheriffs publicly stated that they will not be arresting citizens with magazines that were lawfully purchased before passage of the law, as they believed it to be unconstitutional. Was wondering specifically where you stood on that issue.

Additionally, during Katrina, New Orleans Police were issued an order to confiscate citizens firearms, which upon review was deemed to be a blatant violation of their rights, and I was wondering what you would have done had you been issued those orders.
 
Picton said:
ALL my grappling experience is military. It was not a joke, even 20 years ago. I can only imagine it's gotten even more emphasis in the intervening years.

The techniques were incredibly basic, but the training was not easy. At least in my unit.
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Its a little out of context.

Combat arms dont need to be expert grapplers. They arent fighting other expert grappers. They just need to know the basics, which is sorta what ends up happening.

As an example, the 2nd combative course I took was probably about 10 years after your 1st. And I breezed through it with ONE year of high school wrestling backround [rofl]

For people not into actual grappling, its hard to describe the tiers of skill that start to show up when you start to blend the tier together. Long story short, even to get to the "mid" level of grappling expertise takes an insane amount of time. Like 4/5 days a week for 4 years with 2 hour sessions each. The military can't do that, and they don't have to either.

Which is why I tease beareded hobo guy. Now, he could very well of done what Jocko did, which is introduce an indepth BJJ curriculum into his unit that acts as PT and team building and he'd be a real rock star. But if he's only done what the military threw at him... woof. He'd be fine fighting some random dude in Afghanistan but would be in major danger against even a white belt in BJJ.

it's very much one of those "you dont know what you dont know" things. And boy, do I keep finding out how much I don't know about something I've put an insane amount of time into. Thats really the attraction I suppose.

The police on the other hand do need a significant more amount of grappling. I can't wrap my head around that joke.
 
SFC13557 said:
If I only have one handgun it would be G17/19, no problem with stovepipes but if I don't have a death grip on Glock sometimes the slide doesn't lock back on last round.
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The US military should adopt the G17 as is. No safety none of that other stupid shit the army keeps wanting on the guns (look at the M16/M4 replacement for an entire list of retarded shit the army demanded).

But nope. Scams will scam.

The obsession with safety's aren't doing anyone any favors either.
 
Dench said:
The US military should adopt the G17 as is. No safety none of that other stupid shit the army keeps wanting on the guns (look at the M16/M4 replacement for an entire list of retarded shit the army demanded).

But nope. Scams will scam.

The obsession with safety's aren't doing anyone any favors either.
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I've witnessed three NDs with M9s, one of them fatal. Another one wounded a 9-year-old girl standing nearby. All despite the safety catch.

I think I understand the military obsession with mechanical safeties, but I think they're unnecessary from a training standpoint. I think they add a moving part, which becomes a point of failure when dealing with Joe.

To me, going to the Glock would simplify training: the sole need would be to teach kids to keep the booger hook off the bang switch. You'd still get military NDs (because Joe will be Joe), but I don't see a downside. And even though I'm vocally (but cordially) anti-Glock in my own life, going over to that platform is a no-brainer in any institutional context.

They're just too easy to train on, maintain, and replace. And they're dead reliable.
 
Picton said:
I've witnessed three NDs with M9s, one of them fatal. Another one wounded a 9-year-old girl standing nearby. All despite the safety catch.

I think I understand the military obsession with mechanical safeties, but I think they're unnecessary from a training standpoint. I think they add a moving part, which becomes a point of failure when dealing with Joe.

To me, going to the Glock would simplify training: the sole need would be to teach kids to keep the booger hook off the bang switch. You'd still get military NDs (because Joe will be Joe), but I don't see a downside. And even though I'm vocally (but cordially) anti-Glock in my own life, going over to that platform is a no-brainer in any institutional context.

They're just too easy to train on, maintain, and replace. And they're dead reliable.
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Ive also seen some nasty NDs with M9s. Round straight into the chest point blank. Thought safety was on, etc.

Having no safety and the gun always dangerous in soldiers minds will cut that bullshit right down.
 
To get back on track, yes, I have seen malfunctions in Glocks. I own 1/2 a dozen of them and I often carry a Glock, but I have seen some malfunctions. I don’t think I’ve ever had a stovepipe on a Glock, though.

I had an early Glock 17 and had some early failures to feed. I have a Gen 4 Glock 19 that has had random failures to feed on the last round in the magazine. No, it wasn’t specific to a particular magazine. I replaced followers and springs, yes I was using new magazines.

That said, my Gen 5 19 has been great. After 30 years of shooting Glocks, I still don’t like the grip angle.
 
the only modern gun that needs a safety is a 1911 IMHO

I'm sure there are people who are comfortable enough with the gun and holster to carry it ready to go, but IMHO anything you are counting on in a split second to save your bacon should be draw, point and shoot without having to flip a safety off.

When I got my first Glock 30 years ago, my daily carry was a Model 13 revolver with .38 Spl +p loads. I also had a Model 36.

I never worried about the revolver going off without good reason, the trigger pull alone was enough to prevent that when the gun was in a good quality holster.....

It took me forever to get used to the Glock, I would carry without a round chambered.... not exactly a good idea.... it took me a while to adopt a good leather is worth every cent you pay for it mentality, and once I got a holster with good retention and a thumb break I could carry it with a round chambered and not be paranoid.

OWB I still want thumb breaks, but IWB give me a good molded leather holster that has full trigger coverage and I am happy. DeSantis makes a nice affordable leather holster with a snug fit and full trigger coverage for short money
 
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M1911 said:
To get back on track, yes, I have seen malfunctions in Glocks. I own 1/2 a dozen of them and I often carry a Glock, but I have seen some malfunctions. I don’t think I’ve ever hard a stovepipe on a Glock, though.

I had an early Glock 17 and had some early failures to feed. I have a Gen 4 Glock 19 that has had random failures to feed on the last round in the magazine. No, it wasn’t specific to a particular magazine. I replaced followers and springs, yes I was using new magazines.

That said, my Gen 5 19 has been great. After 30 years of shooting Glocks, I still don’t like the grip angle.
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I wonder, in the face of these ridiculous limp wrist comments, if extractor issues were the problem. I mentioned failure to feed as well and it does indeed appear that it’s common on older Gen Glocks.

I think the grip angle is an acquired taste that one can train out. I’ve never gotten there.
 
appraiser said:
the only gun that needs a safety is a 1911 IMHO

I'm sure there are people who are comfortable enough with the gun and holster to carry it ready to go, but IMHO anything you are counting on in a split second to save your bacon should be draw, point and shoot without having to flip a safety off.

When I got my first Glock 30 years ago, my daily carry was a Model 13 revolver with .38 Spl +p loads. I also had a Model 36.

I never worried about the revolver going off without good reason, the trigger pull alone was enough to prevent that when the gun was in a good quality holster.....

It took me forever to get used to the Glock, I would carry without a round chambered.... not exactly a good idea.... it took me a while to adopt a good leather is worth every cent you pay for it mentality, and once I got a holster with good retention and a thumb break I could carry it with a round chambered and not be paranoid.

OWB I still want thumb breaks, but IWB give me a good molded leather holster that has full trigger coverage and I am happy. DeSantis makes a nice affordable leather holster with a snug fit and full trigger coverage for short money
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It’s this that makes me leery of appendix carry with leather. I don’t trust it outside of 3oclock carry iwb.
 
DrummerGunner said:
I wonder, in the face of these ridiculous limp wrist comments, if extractor issues were the problem. I mentioned failure to feed as well and it does indeed appear that it’s common on older Gen Glocks.
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In their defense, limp wristing might cause stovepipes, so it isn't necessarily ridiculous. No, I'm not saying you were limp wristing, as I have no idea if you were or weren't. I am saying that Glocks can be limp wristed and that can cause stovepipes.

I suspect that low powered ammo or overpowered recoil spring might also cause stovepipes.
 
M1911 said:
In their defense, limp wristing might cause stovepipes, so it isn't necessarily ridiculous. No, I'm not saying you were limp wristing, as I have no idea if you were or weren't. I am saying that Glocks can be limp wristed and that can cause stovepipes.

I suspect that low powered ammo or overpowered recoil spring might also cause stovepipes.
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Well in Fairness to glock I have been known to shoot reman and home loaded rounds. So there’s that. But the failure to feed issue is a bad one. I don’t like wondering if I can trust my life to a firearm. I like to have confidence that it’ll do what it’s supposed to. Again, after thousands of rounds through the new PDP, I’ve had no issues. Not one. That I’ll bank on.
 
appraiser said:
the only modern gun that needs a safety is a 1911 IMHO
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I think there is a reasonable argument to be made that a manual safety is an advantage when carrying in an appendix holster.

I'm sure there are people who are comfortable enough with the gun and holster to carry it ready to go, but IMHO anything you are counting on in a split second to save your bacon should be draw, point and shoot without having to flip a safety off.
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While I carry striker-fired guns now, I carried 1911s for a long time. I've never, ever understood this objection to manual safeties. I was trained to lower the safety on the 1911 during the drawstroke, after I cleared the holster and as I rotated the gun up. Lowering the safety does not slow down your first shot. It just doesn't. My safety is off long before I have the gun on target and I start pressing the trigger. I've got a shot timer and I've timed my first shot with 1911s and Glocks. There has never been a significant difference. If anything, I'm faster with the 1911 because the trigger is so much better.

It isn't hard to learn how to use a safety properly (assuming that the safety is properly sized and located, like a 1911 extended safety).
 
DrummerGunner said:
Well in Fairness to glock I have been known to shoot reman and home loaded rounds. So there’s that. But the failure to feed issue is a bad one. I don’t like wondering if I can trust my life to a firearm. I like to have confidence that it’ll do what it’s supposed to. Again, after thousands of rounds through the new PDP, I’ve had no issues. Not one. That I’ll bank on.
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I've had failures to feed on my old Glock 17 (since sold) and my Gen 4 Glock 19. No failures to feed on 3 Glock 34s (gens 2.5, 4, and 5), Gen 3 Glock 23, Glock 43x, or Gen 5 Glock 19. So I don't think that is endemic to Glocks.

If you have had issues with reloads, I'd be more suspicious of the reloads than the gun.
 
M1911 said:
I've had failures to feed on my old Glock 17 (since sold) and my Gen 4 Glock 19. No failures to feed on 3 Glock 34s (gens 2.5, 4, and 5), Gen 3 Glock 23, Glock 43x, or Gen 5 Glock 19. So I don't think that is endemic to Glocks.

If you have had issues with reloads, I'd be more suspicious of the reloads than the gun.
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I hear you, but when one gun has the potential of failure on given rounds while another can chew anything, I’ll go with the latter
 
AKMa3di said:
I know the exact demographic you're talking about. Usually have a musty, swirl marked paint used cop car chock full of Paul Blart-spec ebay strobe lights in the front and rear windows. 4 or 6 CB radio antennas (more than an actual cop would have) and probably a security guard at a mall or something
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I’d tell my wife I’m getting a semi every time I saw a mall cop perusing the parking lots.

We would die laughing. Then there was the interior guy in his uniform and a radio to the office.

I briefly “worked” with a guy who carried a scanner like it was a two way radio. He loved playing firefighter putting the largest most godly FD stickers on his truck. He was known as Mr. Big Patch.

I had a starring role in making him a Class A dress rain coat out of an old surplus Russian wool army coat after he requested the department supply them. It was gift wrapped and presented at our annual dinner. It was priceless as he walked around modeling it. His wife was really pissed off saying it was very disrespectful.

One of the more funny things I ever did. Child like? Damn straight it was.
 

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