Great thread Dan thanks!!! I just sold my Benelli M-4 and I am trying to figure out now what to get to replace it. Because cost is a factor and I want a gun that will provide me with a level of home defense as well as being able to compete... I have some thinking to do!!!
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So, you want to shoot 3 gun?
- Thread starter Dan S
- Start date
I personally have been shooting a Benelli M2 Field 21" barrel. The short barrel is a pain to find most often, and would not hesitate to go with a 24", or even a 26" for matches. If you can't find one, the FNH SLP is an excellent performer, and it's probably easier to find. It's a Tactical division gun, right out of the box, with the mag the proper length.
Mossberg 930, cheap and reliable and works well for 3 gun
In the outlaw matches, the rules vary slightly from match to match in regard to equipment. If your plans are to shoot in Tactical Optics or Tactical Irons, the configuration is pretty much standard.
8 round magazine tube
No Porting
No Optics
No Box Mags (Saiga, Akdal, Spas)
Choke tubes are fine, just no ported tubes. Not that the porting really does anything.
Other modifications for reliability, ease of loading, trigger are good.
Just as a note to anyone with HD cable... the Versus Network has 3-Gun Nation on if you want a fix... Im enjoying it right now !
Also saw this during a commercial... more gun porn LOL
http://www.3gunnation.com/
Also saw this during a commercial... more gun porn LOL
http://www.3gunnation.com/
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
TY43215
NES Member
It worked pretty well for me at Topton after Mark suggested I use it
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
I also believe in finding a load and sticking with it thus the patterning suggestion. For games in this area, I have found 3 dram Estate #8 function reliably in my 11-87 as to AA loads. So I stick with them. As I told you in e mail, #2 on my list is pattern of every choke I have at the distances I gave you.
That IM was a very good choice for those long steel plates everyone was timing out on.
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The two Jeffs were talking about using the tight choke for the entire match.It worked pretty well for me at Topton after Mark suggested I use it
As I told you in e mail, #2 on my list is pattern of every choke I have at the distances I gave you.
That IM was a very good choice for those long steel plates everyone was timing out on.
I wouldn't bother with the 35 yards. You won't find steel that far. And flying clays will break okay. I've been shooting trap with my Benelli, using a Light Mod choke. I got better breaks with that choke with Winchester cheapo ammo at 1145 fps than AA Super Sport at 1350 fps. Mark told me that higher velocity opens the pattern up, I believe it after using both loads for trap, where the distances are pretty similar for all the birds.
TY43215
NES Member
I understand and appreciate the info.
My answer of IM and LM were to this question"
All the chokes I have came with the gun when I bought it. One benefit of buying used I guess. I pretty much stick with LM for most and will be shooting Sporting Clays this weekend with the 21" 11-87 and that choke. We will see how it works. Problem is I will be shooting steel loads so the pattern will tighten up a little so it is hard to compare.
If the guys show up to play trap, I will try it there too. Tomorrow AM I am hitting range with the chokes, the ammo, and my notebook. We will see how that all works out.
Next week it is back to the range with the rifle and see how the 100 yard zero holds at 200 yards.
I am slower to learn than most
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
I need all the practice I can get. Lots going on in October to test this info out. Not all three gun but a good mix
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I recommend zeroing at 200, it will only be about an inch high at 100. Zeroing at 100 will have it roughly 2 inches low at 200. In my opinion, it's easier to shoot it that way. 100 yard plates, aim in the center, 200 yard plates, same thing.Next week it is back to the range with the rifle and see how the 100 yard zero holds at 200 yards.
I am slower to learn than most
TY43215
NES Member
I agree but my problem has been the close shots when you get heads only. I will work on it
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Under 50 yards hold your dot, crosshair, etc on the top of the head. On real close targets the scope offset makes far more difference than a 100 yd vs 200 yd zero.I agree but my problem has been the close shots when you get heads only. I will work on it
I'd place more faith in the Amrican Rifleman than most Internet forums. Be aware the author of those articles is a Team Benelli member. I'm also sure that as a writer, JP supplies him with a "sample", not that is bad. Both brands are excellent for the game. I suggest that how they are set up is more important than the actual brand.
His comment about gas shotguns not being reliable enough is bull. The SLP, Mossberg 930, Winchesters, and the new Remington VersaMax are all good platforms. Daniel Horner uses a gas gun, you can't tell me that he dominates matches with an unreliable shotgun.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
You mentioned that in your PM to me as well. How short do you suggest cutting the barrel, and what is it about the 28" Waterfowl model that makes you recommend it above all the other models?
Chinalfr's 930 is apparently an early one with rifle sights on an 18.5" (smoothbore) slug barrel; what are folks' thoughts on rifle sights?
ChevyGuy91
NES Member
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Mine was a SPX, with the 18.5 inch barrel and the ghost ring sights. I took the barrel, rear sight, receiver rail, and factory mag extenstion off and did what Supermoto is suggesting. The rifle sights were to slow and almost impossible for me to track flying targets with, so I had a waterfowl barrel cut to 22" and had the factory red fiber bead reinstalled. The longer barrel gave me more room to add the nordic comp mag extension I wanted to run, and it is now threaded for chokes (which the 18"r is not). The gun feels a lot more balanced set up this way, and is useful for more then just looking like it should be hanging from a tactical tommy. I have used for a 2gun action match, used it on the trap field, and wouldn't think twice about plugging the mag and taking it in the field for birds (never had much luck shooting birds, so if I am going to walk around carrying a shotgun I think I would take my lightest
).
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Its the cheapest model. Plus the 28" barrel make cutting the barrel that is ported easier. The 24 barrel needs to have the port covered. My barrel is cut to 22"
I'm not a big fan of rifle sights. But you can have the vented rib cut for a 10/22 rear sight to work with the front bead
I'm not a big fan of rifle sights. But you can have the vented rib cut for a 10/22 rear sight to work with the front bead
If you think you'll have a use for the 28" in the future, you can buy a 24" unported barrel from Mossberg for $150.
A 28" barrel, unless Mossberg changed the rib spacing or ports, can be shortened to 24". The 26" can be cut back to 22". A 10-22 sight or an XS sight can be fitted for slugs, but yet be less intrusive for other kinds of targets.
Here's a link to the Rocky Mountain 3 Gun held at the Whittington Center in August. It's on the Pursuit Channel. You can watch the entire show online.
http://www.pursuitchannel.com/ShowDetail.asp?ShowID=170
http://www.pursuitchannel.com/ShowDetail.asp?ShowID=170
Rifle Zeros
Rifle zeros are something that is both personal and somewhat misunderstood. The more you understand, the less personal they become. HUH?, you ask?
Experienced 3 gunners, that will shoot at many different matches and therefore ranges will leave the rifle sighted in at the same distance, and learn the differing points of impact at different distances, for the most part. Iron sight shooters may vary their tactic more, simply in order to have the front post out of the way of the target.
Playing with a good ballistic program will give some insight to this. One of the best, and it's also free is JBM Ballistics. It can be found here.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi
Keep in mind that the advent of scopes with graduated reticles can have their own quirks, which are easily worked around. A friend of mine had a Swarvski 1-6X, I'm sorry I don't know the model, just that the retail is past the $2K mark. If you send them your bullet, and velocity, they will tell you about where the range is for each mark on the reticle. ABOUT, you ask?? Yup, atmospheric conditions, temperature, atltitude, humidity, etc, will change how your bullet flies. Luckily, we're not shooting benchrest, but, usually steel plates someplace distant. Anyway, since I use a Burris 1-4X XTR, I'll use this for this example.
Bruce Piatt, someone that is not only a top 3 gun shooter, but, someone that I have known for a good many years, and therefore trust what he writes on the web, stated that since he started shooting a scope over iron sights he zeros his 300 yard dot, at 300 yards with his load of choice. Why not just zero at 100 yards with the center dot/crosshair, you ask? Bruce's zero reduces variation at longer distances, while close targets are not so critical.
Now, if you use a red dot, iron sights, or a simple crosshair for your scope, zeroing at a longer distance and learning where it hits is valuable too. An AR has a sight offset of 2.75 -2.87 inches, depending on the mount. Now, with a 200 yard zero, the highest the bullet will hit, is 1.3 inches at 140 yards, the lowest except at the muzzle is -2.2 inches at 10 yards. If you're shooting close paper in the A/B zone, you simply hold on the top of the target- out to 25-30 yards, then hold center out to 200 yards. What about zeroing closer you ask? You still have the same hold over for close targets, but, as you get a longer shot at 200, you might want to hold high, as the impact the impact will be a couple inches low. The farther zero keeps things simpler.
Now, some folks like to rezero for that close up pistol bay match, which many are. If you shoot Open, with two optics on the gun, one sighted short and the other long makes sense, at least in my simple mind. Keeping consistency will ultimately be quicker over a variety of courses. Your brain recognizes what sight picture will work, and the signal to squeeze the trigger gets sent, time after time.
As in the other threads, I do hope this makes sense to all.
Rifle zeros are something that is both personal and somewhat misunderstood. The more you understand, the less personal they become. HUH?, you ask?
Experienced 3 gunners, that will shoot at many different matches and therefore ranges will leave the rifle sighted in at the same distance, and learn the differing points of impact at different distances, for the most part. Iron sight shooters may vary their tactic more, simply in order to have the front post out of the way of the target.
Playing with a good ballistic program will give some insight to this. One of the best, and it's also free is JBM Ballistics. It can be found here.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi
Keep in mind that the advent of scopes with graduated reticles can have their own quirks, which are easily worked around. A friend of mine had a Swarvski 1-6X, I'm sorry I don't know the model, just that the retail is past the $2K mark. If you send them your bullet, and velocity, they will tell you about where the range is for each mark on the reticle. ABOUT, you ask?? Yup, atmospheric conditions, temperature, atltitude, humidity, etc, will change how your bullet flies. Luckily, we're not shooting benchrest, but, usually steel plates someplace distant. Anyway, since I use a Burris 1-4X XTR, I'll use this for this example.
Bruce Piatt, someone that is not only a top 3 gun shooter, but, someone that I have known for a good many years, and therefore trust what he writes on the web, stated that since he started shooting a scope over iron sights he zeros his 300 yard dot, at 300 yards with his load of choice. Why not just zero at 100 yards with the center dot/crosshair, you ask? Bruce's zero reduces variation at longer distances, while close targets are not so critical.
Now, if you use a red dot, iron sights, or a simple crosshair for your scope, zeroing at a longer distance and learning where it hits is valuable too. An AR has a sight offset of 2.75 -2.87 inches, depending on the mount. Now, with a 200 yard zero, the highest the bullet will hit, is 1.3 inches at 140 yards, the lowest except at the muzzle is -2.2 inches at 10 yards. If you're shooting close paper in the A/B zone, you simply hold on the top of the target- out to 25-30 yards, then hold center out to 200 yards. What about zeroing closer you ask? You still have the same hold over for close targets, but, as you get a longer shot at 200, you might want to hold high, as the impact the impact will be a couple inches low. The farther zero keeps things simpler.
Now, some folks like to rezero for that close up pistol bay match, which many are. If you shoot Open, with two optics on the gun, one sighted short and the other long makes sense, at least in my simple mind. Keeping consistency will ultimately be quicker over a variety of courses. Your brain recognizes what sight picture will work, and the signal to squeeze the trigger gets sent, time after time.
As in the other threads, I do hope this makes sense to all.
My 930 ran perfectly at the shotgun match yesterday. I think it's the way to go to get started in tactical. I have about $900 in mine altogether. I could've saved $100 by getting the factory barrel cut and threaded, but decided to just buy the 24" unported barrel. Recoil is very mild; I shot about 200 rounds yesterday and don't even have a red spot on my shoulder. The only thing I want to change about the gun at this point is opening up the loading port.
I'm thinking about trying to travel to one of the major matches in 2012. Dan, or others who've traveled to a variety of matches, which ones should I be looking at?
I'm thinking about trying to travel to one of the major matches in 2012. Dan, or others who've traveled to a variety of matches, which ones should I be looking at?
Yeah, I'm definitely planning on that one if I can make the date. I had a conflict this year, or I would've been there. Topton is only an hour from my parents house, so I could get double use out of the trip.
Jeff, any matches that Topton puts on is worth the drive. Dean puts on a good match, for a reasonable price and has prizes to boot. For a straight rifle match, the NY State Rifle Match at Square Deal in Binghampton is a good match, again reasonable cost, cash payout.
I've gotten to like natural terrain matches. They have more distance for rifle, can be much more physically challenging (don't ask why I like that part, I don't know!) and can have unique stages (the Cave at Blue Ridge) I've shot two of them, Blue Ridge, which is held at Rockcastle Shooting Center in Kentucky, and Rocky Mountain 3 Gun at the NRA Whittington Center, Raton, N.M. Both are extremely well run, and on my list to shoot again. Blue Ridge is driveable,(16 hours), Rocky Mountain, by air. Flying out of Manchester was easy, and the 220 mile drive from Alburqurque is an easy 3 hours.
The AR-15.com Pro/Am was very well recieved and David Eller shot it this year, and enjoyed it. If you that, shoot Pro. Prizes are by performance, Am...well, random drawing. That also was at Rockcastle. The FNH match which is next month in West Virginia, at Peacemaker National, a brand new facility, should be a good one, and only 8 hours drive from here. A few of us attended a 3 gun class there this past April.
There are others, obviously. The good ones fill fast, so, you really have to start planning now. If one interests you, let me know. I probably know someone that shot it, and get some feedback for you. Lousy weather doesn't count against a match.
I've gotten to like natural terrain matches. They have more distance for rifle, can be much more physically challenging (don't ask why I like that part, I don't know!) and can have unique stages (the Cave at Blue Ridge) I've shot two of them, Blue Ridge, which is held at Rockcastle Shooting Center in Kentucky, and Rocky Mountain 3 Gun at the NRA Whittington Center, Raton, N.M. Both are extremely well run, and on my list to shoot again. Blue Ridge is driveable,(16 hours), Rocky Mountain, by air. Flying out of Manchester was easy, and the 220 mile drive from Alburqurque is an easy 3 hours.
The AR-15.com Pro/Am was very well recieved and David Eller shot it this year, and enjoyed it. If you that, shoot Pro. Prizes are by performance, Am...well, random drawing. That also was at Rockcastle. The FNH match which is next month in West Virginia, at Peacemaker National, a brand new facility, should be a good one, and only 8 hours drive from here. A few of us attended a 3 gun class there this past April.
There are others, obviously. The good ones fill fast, so, you really have to start planning now. If one interests you, let me know. I probably know someone that shot it, and get some feedback for you. Lousy weather doesn't count against a match.
