Sporterized 1873 Trapdoor in MA, bound book or not?

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Not worth it. Leave it there. Piece of junk.
I’ll make sure he gets rid of it. Damn I wish I saw that rifle before you.

He sold it on gunbroker first, but when the buyer in Tennessee received it and took it to a gunsmith he was told he couldn't do what he wanted with it which was to use it to hunt BEARS, well duh it is a trapdoor not a Ruger #1 (which I also have in 45-70) so he sent it back. I had expressed interest in it but said he wanted too much for it due to the bidding. When it came back he offered it for a good price and I snapped it up, going to get it Tuesday. It has a nice bore with sharp rifling and no pitting, which if you know original trapdoors is not that common.

I love Trapdoors especially Carbines or Officers Models. I am not a purist, while I have two trapdoor rifles I also have another custom done "Officers" model with a 24" barrel (a bubba would bother me). The carbine I have now is a repro but is fun to shoot.

Trapdoor carbine

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

He sold it on gunbroker first, but when the buyer in Tennessee received it and took it to a gunsmith he was told he couldn't do what he wanted with it which was to use it to hunt BEARS, well duh it is a trapdoor not a Ruger #1 (which I also have in 45-70) so he sent it back. I had expressed interest in it but said he wanted too much for it due to the bidding. When it came back he offered it for a good price and I snapped it up, going to get it Tuesday. It has a nice bore with sharp rifling and no pitting, which if you know original trapdoors is not that common.

I love Trapdoors especially Carbines or Officers Models. I am not a purist, while I have two trapdoor rifles I also have another custom done "Officers" model with a 24" barrel (a bubba would bother me). The carbine I have now is a repro but is fun to shoot.

Trapdoor carbine

The gunsmith lied to him. There isn’t much a trapdoor load won’t kill.
Go on Garret’s ammo website and read about penetration. They make some hot loads but even the mild stuff doesn’t stop penetrating.
Granted the follow up shot wouldn’t be super fast but hell guys hunt bears with worse weapons.

 

[mac1911]

The gunsmith lied to him. There isn’t much a trapdoor load won’t kill.
Go on Garret’s ammo website and read about penetration. They make some hot loads but even the mild stuff doesn’t stop penetrating.
Granted the follow up shot wouldn’t be super fast but hell guys hunt bears with worse weapons.

unless im mistaken , im pretty sure the original 45/70 has taken a bear or few over the past 100+ years.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

unless im mistaken , im pretty sure the original 45/70 has taken a bear or few over the past 100+ years.

Pics or it didn’t happen!

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

The thing you have to be very careful about is using minimum/trapdoor loads especially with the original trapdoors, they have a weak action as it is and they are over 120 years old. You should keep the CUP below 18,000

But even if it will kill a bear and the smith lied to him, that helps me as I really wanted that gun

 

[jpm]

unless im mistaken , im pretty sure the original 45/70 has taken a bear or few over the past 100+ years.

This! They took down bison FFS, I think they can kill a bear too. But he probably wanted to use jacketed rounds in it which is a no-go. All the better for @Ben Cartwright SASS !

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

The thing you have to be very careful about is using minimum/trapdoor loads especially with the original trapdoors, they have a weak action as it is and they are over 120 years old. You should keep the CUP below 18,000

But even if it will kill a bear and the smith lied to him, that helps me as I really wanted that gun

I totally agree with you. You have to make sure that you have the proper ammo. I also agree that it’s awesome that the Smith lied to him most likely just due to lack of knowledge.

This! They took down bison FFS, I think they can kill a bear too. But he probably wanted to use jacketed rounds in it which is a no-go. All the better for @Ben Cartwright SASS !

I would say that’s true for originals for sure. I’m not really sure but it does look like Ed put a brand new barrel on that action. Will will probably eat anything you need it to bullet wise

 

[jpm]

I would say that’s true for originals for sure. I’m not really sure but it does look like Ed put a brand new barrel on that action. Will will probably eat anything you need it to bullet wise

NO! That is the original barrel, see the V over P over eagle head over P. That's the original proofs. Only lead rounds in that gun.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

also the barrels are not the weak part it is the action, the trap as it were. Rolling blocks and drop blocks like the Ruger #1 can eat anything up to 105mm howitzer rounds

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

NO! That is the original barrel, see the V over P over eagle head over P. That's the original proofs. Only lead rounds in that gun.

Ah got it! Very cool.
I prepped 375 pieces of 45-70 brass last night. I love that cartridge!

 

[jpm]

also the barrels are not the weak part it is the action, the trap as it were. Rolling blocks and drop blocks like the Ruger #1 can eat anything up to 105mm howitzer rounds

Well with regards to jacketed ammo the barrels actually are the problem. They are too soft for jacketed rounds and will wear the rifling out.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Never ever shoot jacketed in Trapdoors! Lead only and light load if smokeless

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Never ever shoot jacketed in Trapdoors! Lead only and light load if smokeless

I paper patch for my trapdoor.
Damn I haven’t shot that in a while. I really need to break that out.
12 grains of Unique with a 405 is great

 

[jpm]

I paper patch for my trapdoor.
Damn I haven’t shot that in a while. I really need to break that out.
12 grains of Unique with a 405 is great

I love Unique for my trapdoors. I think I use 11.5 with a 350gr bullet. Nice carbine load

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

I love Unique for my trapdoors. I think I use 11.5 with a 350gr bullet. Nice carbine load

Yeah that’s a sweet load. You can shoot that all day long.
I load 3 round balls over about 8 or so grains of Unique.
All 3 balls sailed through 32” of clear ballistic gel. Talk about a nice self defense load!

 

[jpm]

Yeah that’s a sweet load. You can shoot that all day long.
I load 3 round balls over about 8 or so grains of Unique.
All 3 balls sailed through 32” of clear ballistic gel. Talk about a nice self defense load!

Oh I love it! What caliber are the balls? Are they .458" stacked on top of one another?

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Oh I love it! What caliber are the balls? Are they .458" stacked on top of one another?

Yeah I use the .457” round ball mould and use roughly 1% Tin and 2% antimony so it casts a little larger than it would with pure lead. So it’s about .460” once I coat them.
If you’re not coating I would just put a dab of bullet lube between each ball. It should melt up and keep it lubed.
I found that if you tumble lube with Alox or something they slide around in the case too easily.
That worries me because I don’t want any space between the balls. One slamming into another can swell and ring the chamber.

So run them coated or run them dry with a half of a pea sized ball of lube between each ball.
They are so awesome. They print about 2” at 20 yards and maybe 6” at 50.
You can hear the 3 hits against the steel when it’s out a distance. So cool

 

[jpm]

Thanks! I'll have to try this. Sounds fun

Yeah I use the .457” round ball mould and use roughly 1% Tin and 2% antimony so it casts a little larger than it would with pure lead. So it’s about .460” once I coat them.
If you’re not coating I would just put a dab of bullet lube between each ball. It should melt up and keep it lubed.
I found that if you tumble lube with Alox or something they slide around in the case too easily.
That worries me because I don’t want any space between the balls. One slamming into another can swell and ring the chamber.

So run them coated or run them dry with a half of a pea sized ball of lube between each ball.
They are so awesome. They print about 2” at 20 yards and maybe 6” at 50.
You can hear the 3 hits against the steel when it’s out a distance. So cool

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Thanks! I'll have to try this. Sounds fun

You’ll be hooked!

 

[majspud]

Pre heart attack accuracy, but they're fun to shoot! 1892 M88, attributed to the 12thNY Vols. in Cuba.

IIRC, 405gr lead SWC over 70gr Pyrodex

t

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

what velocities and pressures are you guys getting with unique? I haven't seen it in the Lyman Cast Bullet book

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

 

[jpm]

LOL at this one and the idea of using 45/70 on a woodchuck!!

View attachment 422524

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Thank you! I have 2 or 3 pounds of Unique, running out of my 5744 Powder is hard to get

 

[mac1911]

LOL at this one and the idea of using 45/70 on a woodchuck!!

You will need it! Sumbitches are hard as rocks!

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Thank you! I have 2 or 3 pounds of Unique, running out of my 5744 Powder is hard to get

You’re welcome.
Also I don’t use filler with the 12 grain load. Unique is easy to light and as far as load density.....
When I changed over my powder measure from H4198 to Unique I wanted to see how much Unique the same volume would throw. Just so I could see how far I needed to crank the screw.
32 Grains of H4198 throws almost exact to 12 grains of Unique volume wise.

 

[TFLeader]

FYI Ed Landers still has a shop in Alexandria, NH. The photo of the gun room shows about 30% of his inventory.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Wow that is great

 

[majspud]

You’re welcome.
Also I don’t use filler with the 12 grain load. Unique is easy to light and as far as load density.....
When I changed over my powder measure from H4198 to Unique I wanted to see how much Unique the same volume would throw. Just so I could see how far I needed to crank the screw.
32 Grains of H4198 throws almost exact to 12 grains of Unique volume wise.

Curious.....compared my military load of 70gr 2X powder or Pyrodex which fills the case....a tiny load of 12gr leaves a lot of empty case....no issues with that?
t

 

[jpm]

Curious.....compared my military load of 70gr 2X powder or Pyrodex which fills the case....a tiny load of 12gr leaves a lot of empty case....no issues with that?
t

Never had an issue with it and I'm using 11.5gr with a smaller bullet. I use Winchester LRP in mine.