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Tactical Lights on Home-defense weapons

I feel a light of some sort is a must. You have to be able to positively ID your target as a threat. Heaven forbid you shoot a family member who is trying to sneak in after hours. Lasers/ night sights etc. dont due this. I use an older Surefire that I hold in my hand. I would prefer a weapon mounted light but dont have a rail. As for the shotgun I will be mounting one in the future but currently use the handheld with that also. Sigarms Academy offers a low light shooting class that teaches you how to use a flashlight and shoot in the dark. It is a fantastic class and I feel it is a must for anyone who is serious about self defense. Odds are you arent going to be using your weapon in broad daylight in a defensive situation.
 
I installed a MiniMag on my Mossberg 500A. It has a touch switch on the forearm and it's mounted very easily on the extended mag tube. It may not be as bright as a Surefire, but it throws enough light to illumiate a good sized room. I may or may not turn it on depending on the situation, but at least I have the choice.
 
The problem with tac lights is that they generally require that you point a
loaded firearm around (and possibly at things which are non-targets) in order to be of any use. So, one must use them carefully. I don't think they're bad to have, but they're not really a good substitute for a separate
flashlight.

I say all this confessing that I actually do own one of the things, and I
bought it because it was at the right price. I think of it more as an SHTF
device than one for normal home defense. The guns I usually keep around for HD don't have tac lights, though.


-Mike
 
I have a xenon light built into the forend of my HD shotgun. If it's in the light, it's in my sights.

So, I know WHAT I'm hitting as well as where - the advantage of a LIGHT over a laser.
 
I've heard that it's a bad idea. The light basically gives an intruder a good target to shoot at if you haven't aquired him in your light yet. Same with lasers. It's best to have a light in your offhand and hold it out and up police style, then if someone shoots at the light at worst you'll get an arm or hand injury, as opposed to a headshot on you because you were looking down a tac light.
 
I really do not like the idea of a light on a firearm in the case you describe. In order to light up friend or foe, you have to point a loaded firearm at them. Not a good thing in all situations.
 
The problem with tac lights is that they generally require that you point a loaded firearm around (and possibly at things which are non-targets) in order to be of any use.
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Surefires are bright enough that you can easily illuminate a room by bouncing the light off the floor, ceiling, or walls. So you can keep the gun pointed in a safe direction and still see what you need to see.
 
+2 on bouncing the light off the floor. I can keep either my light-equipped pump shotgun or light-equipped pistol pointed at the low ready (45 degree angle to the floor) and still have PLENTY of light to identify what's out there.

I like the idea of not having to deal with a separate tool in the middle of the night, so I want the flashlight attached to the gun. As far as giving the intruder a target to shoot at, he's going to have that anyway. And if the guy is brazen enough to stick around after hearing you approach, he's got more than theft in mind. Blinding him, if just temporarily, might be the slight advantage you need to stop him before he stops you.

But backing up just a minute... if there are no other rooms to be concerned about (kids), it's probably better to stay behind the locked door of your bedroom and let the intruder KNOW verbally that you have a gun, and that you are calling 911. From both a tactical and legal point of view, better he comes to find you (where you're ready for him, and he is forced into the "fatal funnel" of your doorway) than the other way around.

If he then manages to slip out the front door with some of your stuff, so what? That's what home insurance is for. Material things can be replaced - lives can not.

My 2 cents..
 
Round Gun Shooter said:
FYI, that is an outdated FBI technique. There are several newer more reliable techniques that use modern lights.

A good light can be a formidable weapon in a dark room [wink]
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What is a more modern technique? I tried a couple and stuck with putting the light by my head so it would track naturally. I couldn't get anything two handed to work reliably.
 
USMA-82 said:
But backing up just a minute... if there are no other rooms to be concerned about (kids), it's probably better to stay behind the locked door of your bedroom and let the intruder KNOW verbally that you have a gun, and that you are calling 911. From both a tactical and legal point of view, better he comes to find you (where you're ready for him, and he is forced into the "fatal funnel" of your doorway) than the other way around.

If he then manages to slip out the front door with some of your stuff, so what? That's what home insurance is for. Material things can be replaced - lives can not.

My 2 cents..
Click to expand...

Amen to that!

Standing triumphantly over the intruder who is sprawled out under the 348" plasma screen tv he was carting away will not go down well... Let him have the "stuff".
 
Round gun: didn't know that. I was just told that in general the flashlight would give someone a place to aim at, and assuming you're aiming at them too that light is a target to your face. This is what an officer told me anyway, I wouldn't know!

-Tom
 
Round Gun Shooter said:
FYI, that is an outdated FBI technique. There are several newer more reliable techniques that use modern lights.

A good light can be a formidable weapon in a dark room [wink]
Click to expand...

Did that change primarily due to the availability of very bright but small lights? Just curious what drove the change. I can imagine that it is diffucult to use your "light" hand for support if it is holding a 4 D Cell Maglight.
 
While I've got a couple of good lights and train with my Surefire regularly, I really don't need one at home. Anybody who comes through my locked bedroom door at night has already identified himself adequately to generate a lethal response.

Ken
 
M1911 said:
Harries seems to work best for me (unless I'm at a left-hand barricade), but there's many techniques to choose from:
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgrfnbr/557/sesent/00
Click to expand...

Leave it to me when faced with several unfamiliar techniques to zero in on the latest and greatest. [smile]
Neck-Index Technique
One of the newest techniques to be developed, the Neck-Index Technique, is the culmination of much experimintation. It is a hands-apart technique in which the flashlight is held in an ice pick grip and the handgun is held in either the strong- or weak-hand. The first published description of this technique appeared in a June, 1994 magazine article by Brian Puckett and, since Americans love nothing more than to pigeonhole things, it was immediately dubbed the Puckett Technique. However, a version of this technique for use with SureFire's compact, powerful lithium-powered lights was taught by Ken Good and Dave Maynard of Combative Concepts about two years prior to the '94 article. Puckett and Good now use the term Neck Index Technique.

Employing the Neck Index requires that the light's reflector is held indexed against the jaw/neck juncture just below the ear, so that it moves in conjunction with user's head, yet blocks little peripheral vision. The thumb is placed on the momentary tailcap switch, if using a SureFire CombatLight, or a finger is positioned on the body-mounted switch, if using an old-style flashlight. For the older, large "police flashlights," the flashlight body is rested on the shoulder, indexed against the base of the neck. For compact, lithium-powered flashlights, the body of the flashlight, or the fist holding it, is indexed against the neck. The weapon is held in any position desired, out of contact with flashlight hand or arm.

An ancillary benefit of the Neck Index Technique is that it utilizes the same basic position as the common method of cops when they interview suspects - resting the light on the shoulder in order to deliver a fast strike if the suspect suddenly becomes aggressive. By employing a similar position, the Neck Index Technique allows an ergonomic, tactical and even psychological benefit. The Neck Index Technique breaks from the trend of hands-together techniques that have been universal since the Harries was first introduced. The goal of hands-together techniques is to steady the shooting hand and keep the flashlight beam aligned with the gun barrel. Good and Maynard's dynamic combat techniques did not require this, and anyone who has tested different techniques in a CQB environment - and not just on the range - will agree that the ability to take cover and shoot bilaterally from around corners more than offsets the putative drawback of the Neck Index's less stability than a hands-together technique.
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I find it does not work well around barricades. The flashlight sometimes points at the barricade but it is easy and natural to correct.
 
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Tactical lights are extremely bright and concentrated. In a dark room, the effect of a light in the face is magnified because the pupils are enlarged to gather the (much) lower light level. The light will almost always cause an immediate subconcious reaction to raise up an arm to block the light and causing temporary blindness. It's much more effective than it sounds. If you don't believe that a 3v or 6v 65-95 lumen bulb won't do that "damage", go in a dark room for a few minutes, then flash the light in your face just for 1 or 2 seconds. Turning on the lights does more harm than good because your night vision (from being in a dark room to begin with) will cause you to squint or even involuntary raise your arms because of the sudden drastic change in lighting.
 
matt said:
Did that change primarily due to the availability of very bright but small lights? Just curious what drove the change. I can imagine that it is diffucult to use your "light" hand for support if it is holding a 4 D Cell Maglight.
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I will answer several questions quoting this.

As stated in another post the Harries method is good, the Sure Fire method is good, the Rogers method is good. The old FBI technique gave the most target to the opponent. It was like HEY SHOOT HERE JUST UNDER THE LIGHT Wide open stance and enough light to give a target.

Primary purpose of a light is to identify the intruder. If you think bouncing a light off the floor will allow proper target identification, you will be very sorry when you try it for real.

Having searched buildings and wooded areas at night more than once, I realized early on there is no such thing as enough light. My main light now is a Surefire with LED head powered by 2 3volt Lithium cells.

Is it enough light?

No.

I wish I lived close enough to BlackBear 84 to try what he sells. That is better than what I have from what I see on this forum, but before I spent the cash I would want to check it out. (If you want to send a loaner, I will do a forum get together to test it [wink] )

I realized at a shooting competition that the LED light was better than the others due to the whiteness of the light. (Is whiteness a word??? is now)

The whiter the light the better you can identify the target.

Think back to the Shrewsbury Officer that was shot by the homeowner. Someone there (most likely all involved) needed better lights.

When you have done a building or area search for real you will realize what method works for you. You will also realize the best choice is call for K9

If you ever have the chance to take a light course offered by Ernest Langdon, take it no matter what the cost is. The man is good and gets the point across. He is entertaining too. He is one of the trainers that has been there. He did not learn by just taking courses or reading books.

Regards,
 
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M1911 said:
If only I had that option...
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CORGI004.jpg


She works for food [smile]
 
TomH said:
I've heard that it's a bad idea. The light basically gives an intruder a good target to shoot at if you haven't aquired him in your light yet. Same with lasers. It's best to have a light in your offhand and hold it out and up police style, then if someone shoots at the light at worst you'll get an arm or hand injury, as opposed to a headshot on you because you were looking down a tac light.
Click to expand...

That must be why weapon mounted lights are virtually universal on all police special teams, and more and more beat cops are equipping themselves thus. [thinking]
 
I think any advantage to target/threat ID is worth the $$. If I'm going for my SD weapon then I am thinking that something isn't "kosher" to start with! [thinking] I have a Surefire 6 volt fore end light on my 870 and a Gladius for use with my Sig 229. All I need is a conformation of who/what I'm shooting at. I also have Tritium sights on all my SD weapons.
 
I will put forth some input tomorrow. This is a good, and important discussion.

I am also moving this to the appropriate forum.
 
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