pastera
NES Member
The summary is not the bill
It is clear that copies and duplicates are only exempt if they were registered by 7/20/16.
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885
- Thread starter GOAL
- Start date
It is clear that copies and duplicates are only exempt if they were registered by 7/20/16.
The new bill actually says prior to 7/20/16.
That would mean the rush to buy ARs on 7/20… that’s all documented felonies in 90 days if you still own it.
pastera
NES Member
It's going to get interesting once the people realize all of the panic guns they are buying might just turn into felonies in a few weeks.
Beretta92FS
NES Member
Well, effective date of the new bill matters. If effective date is on August 1, or later, then it will trigger the grandfathering exemption in the new Section 131M (b), because everything up until that time would have been legally owned under the current laws. The exact timing of the effective date is REALLY important, and makes all the difference.
Pass them to your kids and dare the Commonwealth to take you to court.
We're WAY past the point where this is not just a ridiculous law, but an offensive law. You are an American owning a legal object. Of course it's your right to dispose of your property as you wish. If the State has a problem with that, they are in the wrong. They're wrong legally, they're wrong constitutionally, they're wrong morally, and they're wrong ethically. Don't waste your time trying to comply with their bullshit.
Give your guns to your kids with your blessing and make sure they're legal when they carry them. The State is unlikely to push it even if they think they have a good case. If the State somehow does try to take you to court for something as picayune as that? Then cowboy up and push it as far as you need to before a competent court smacks them back into the pit they bubbled up from.
Agreed.
pastera
NES Member
The issue is what the courts interpret of the discrepancy in the language of the grandfathering and the assault-style definition exemption.
The only courts that will side with us on the interpretation are those that will toss the entire scheme as unconstitutional on its face
It's possible, even in this stupid state, that a non-zero percentage of judges might just be moved to think twice about the automatic smackdown they'd normally apply in a gun case.
That discrepancy, whether intentional or not, represents eight years of sales. That is a ridiculously high number of potential prosecutions, in an environment where any number of official pronouncements can be produced by a zealous defense lawyer that show all those sales were made in good faith, only to now be punished.
That's a pretty egregious example of a shittily-written law.
Summary is not the bill but it was used by congress to vote on said bill. If the caucus makes it clear via the summary what the intent of the bill is, that should count for something.
The summary also states that all ASWs “legally possessed” on 8/1 are GTG. My understanding of “legally possessed” means registered (via FA10) and whomever had possession was properly licensed.
Note that the same language is used in the current law regarding pre-94 rifles AND in Bruce Tarr’s amendment (S2572-11) to house bill 4139:
Nothing is clear at this point in time.
OK, loaning a firearm out is limited to 7 days.
What does this do in the case of a red flag seizure? Since the "held a trusted friend" option now seems to be gone, are the only options remaining a transfer by you to a friendly FFL or getting exposed to the PD using a bonded warehouse?
What does this do in the case of a red flag seizure? Since the "held a trusted friend" option now seems to be gone, are the only options remaining a transfer by you to a friendly FFL or getting exposed to the PD using a bonded warehouse?
pastera
NES Member
Again the summary is meaningless when it comes to interpreting the legal ramifications of thus bill.
Do you really think leftists in Massachusetts give a rat's ass about shitty written laws or have a care in the world about enforcing them? Dude, wake up!!!
Woodsloafer
NES Member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2008
- Messages
- 9,174
- Likes
- 16,149
He's kind of odd, doesn't live here anymore but spends all his time shitposting about the state. If I moved out I wouldn't look in the rear view mirror and certainly wouldn't waste any of my time here posting about new gun laws, we get it, the state sucks and the new regs really suck. I would be enjoying my new life and forget about the one here, why spend any time or energy on something that has no effect on you whatsoever, nevermind getting worked up over it.
I am surprised at your ignorance. Live firearms training means the gun that you will bring to train with when poked should take defensive posture. Don’t have one that articulated? You cannot pass the training and no license for you.
Last edited:
I haven’t been this upset since the assassination attempt last week.
I don’t live in Massachusetts full time anymore. I’m even more embarrassed to say I’m from there. My deepest thoughts and prayers.
A quick story when my grandfather was alive he knew more stupid gun laws were coming so he brought an M&P 15 in 2016. Which I still have today.
Just angering. Two things need to stop
1. Dems and going after guns it’s pointless and ridiculous as we all know
2. Republicans (more so an N.C. issue) going after weed (I don’t smoke weed) just legalize it like the other states and be done with it.
Also I still visit gun stores in MA looking for my boomer revolvers, 3rd gens and Sig DA/SAs. Even though I EDC an Sig P365 during the week.
I don’t live in Massachusetts full time anymore. I’m even more embarrassed to say I’m from there. My deepest thoughts and prayers.
A quick story when my grandfather was alive he knew more stupid gun laws were coming so he brought an M&P 15 in 2016. Which I still have today.
Just angering. Two things need to stop
1. Dems and going after guns it’s pointless and ridiculous as we all know
2. Republicans (more so an N.C. issue) going after weed (I don’t smoke weed) just legalize it like the other states and be done with it.
Also I still visit gun stores in MA looking for my boomer revolvers, 3rd gens and Sig DA/SAs. Even though I EDC an Sig P365 during the week.
Attachments
Rockrivr1
NES Member
I went by the Mill yesterday and I’ve never seen it so crowded. There were so many people there that they were parking out onto the street. Never seen so many cars there. The gun stores were making Bank yesterday!
I much prefer the @peterk123 model. Show all the great things about the new state and just make us all jealous of the freedom and opportunities elsewhere.
EJFudd
NES Member
Yes, it was certainly a great day for most MA gun shops yesterday. Stupid lefty liberal DimocRATS are still the world's greatest gun sales people.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
I hit one decent (non-Mill) gun shop yesterday just to see what was going on and it was a total mob scene. Never seen so many people buying. I had to assure the folks standing in line that I was just there for a little research and amusement and not there to buy. Otherwise, a few of them waiting in line would have likely tossed me out on my ass.
But all this will end soon enough. Sales will go back to normal or below or nil depending on the shop. Hope they make book now because bad times are ahead.
Yes, it was certainly a great day for most MA gun shops yesterday. Stupid lefty liberal DimocRATS are still the world's greatest gun sales people.
I hit one decent (non-Mill) gun shop yesterday just to see what was going on and it was a total mob scene. Never seen so many people buying. I had to assure the folks standing in line that I was just there for a little research and amusement and not there to buy. Otherwise, a few of them waiting in line would have likely tossed me out on my ass.
But all this will end soon enough. Sales will go back to normal or below or nil depending on the shop. Hope they make book now because bad times are ahead.
I will say, much like the ammo scares of the past, in this scenario it does feel good to have consistently exercised "prudent inventory management" over the years so that I don't need to stand in any lines now.
This is, however, a great opportunity to support our dealers who are getting royally f***ed by this bill. I made my way to Liberty Ordnance in Norwood for the first time yesterday and was plesently greeted by a great group of guys with an anti-fudd inventory (BCM, Unity, EOTechs, etc.) who were willing to order whatever they could for customers before the cut off.
Since this bill was first filed and friends of mine started getting upset, I've felt like the only way we lose is if we let them get to us. I intend to make more friends, more support more stores, spread the word to the Johnny one-boxes out there (for what that's worth), and get new shooters licensed.
That’s what I am trying to find out myself!.I guess if you own a preban before Aug 1 your ok right? A lot going on here , just trying to keep up with what these sneaky shits are trying to push on us
If you bought it on 8/1 it is 'legally possessed' on that date even if not fa10'ed as you have 7 days to do so.
Unfortunately the actual bill also states 'and registered' but that possibly contradicts current law of 7 days.
EJFudd
NES Member
Let's just say that I wouldn't delay registering if you are buying something and interpreting 8/1/2024 as the end date for anything.
pastera
NES Member
This isn't quite true
The section of the "assault-style" definition covering copies and duplicates contains language the only excludes those that were lawfully ow ed (nothing per the state) AND registered before 7/20/16.
So any AR purchased now and entered into the portal (registered) is likely evidence of a felony once this POS becomes effective.
Not that I care, but it's not law yet.
So anything bought before it's signed is CLEARLY not something you could be prosecuted for later. That is an ex-post-facto situation.
So I moved to Connecticut a week ago… this sounds exactly like Connecticut law. By constantly passing new minorly updated gun bans, they avoid court battles that might overturn the bans, and muddy the waters of legal guns. It also makes our guns legal to own, but hard to use outside of the range. There are potential huge loopholes in both states, but I’m not sure about you, but I don’t want to be the test case on legality! Fortunately for me, being military, all my Mass stuff is legally transferable to Connecticut (not that I think exemptions are cool for military/LEO), but these states make legal possession difficult.
pastera
NES Member
It isn't since you have notice and the chance to turn in or transfer out any newly banned guns.
Perhaps; I just see that kind of discrepancy as Reason #34,808 why this won't ever see the inside of a courtroom. I suspect the State will be very, very careful to keep most of this law far away from the appellate process.
pastera
NES Member
Concur
But the simple fact that they are excluding commercial sale of all long guns for an indeterminate length of time creates standing as does the simply ban of a class of arms the SCOTUS itself admits is common and therfore protected.
