The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[william_munny]

Someone her can better/longer explain it, but in a nut shell, they gave up the secrete sauce that made AR's legal in MA post 1994 to the news, Mura got wind of it and 7/20/2016 happened...

Ah, sounds like their bigger sin was talking to a reporter in the first place. I have to imagine Maura knew how ARs could still be legally sold in MA for the last 22 years (as of that moment).

 

[chris_1001]

Ah, sounds like their bigger sin was talking to a reporter in the first place. I have to imagine Maura knew how ARs could still be legally sold in MA for the last 22 years (as of that moment).

Yup... STFU! Don't make it public. I'm sure after the state house got a ton of calls...

Gun Parlor is another that did not know when to STFU...

 

[william_munny]

Yup... STFU! Don't make it public. I'm sure after the state house got a ton of calls...

Gun Parlor is another that did not know when to STFU...

Yeah, but Gun Parlor is definitely making their grilled cheese at night.

 

[MAJoe]

Since the 8/1 date pertains to assault-style weapons and a law typically doesn't go into effect until 90 days after it's signed (unless an emergency preamble is added by Healey), would it still be possible to transfer handgun frames within that 90-day period?

No idea, I’d ask some FFLs to see what they’ve heard. The risk of frame transfers for non-AWB pistols is on the dealer.

 

[Gasgunner]

In an unrelated but similar story, MA is going after Japanese Kei vehicles. Not just the guns fellas, tiny 25 year old tiny JDM trucks and vans are a threat to the fine folks of the commonwealth. How dare you import a car that gets 45mpg without airbags and ABS!

 

[Martinilover]

Just thought of something to limit risk. Buy one of these and keep in a draw for a rainy day. With this on the rifle it’s no longer an assault rifle. Without a removable magazine it would be categorized the same as a bolt action. Not saying to use it but just have it just in case.

Cross Armory | SAFE MAG 2 | ALL AR-15/M4 | CA Legal AR 15 Maglock

Cross Armory SAFE MAG fixed magazine locking system prevents the removal of the magazine from your AR-15 or M4 rifle without disassembly of the action. Easy to install, SAFE MAG allows automatic magazine release when upper and lower receivers are separated, no need to push a button.

crossarmory.com

 

[Captain Picard]

The section 49 summary for LTC says that the possession of large capacity and semi-automatic firearms is banned.
Does that mean ALL semi autos, including pistols? Should I assume that means the ability to buy them post 8/1, and grandfathers currently owned firearms in, right?

Also, I've always have a delayed background check. Could that potentially push something I purchase now past 8/1 and create a big problem?

Thanks to those who are sharing informed insights on this terrible legalese.

 

[chris_1001]

Just thought of something to limit risk. Buy one of these and keep in a draw for a rainy day. With this on the rifle it’s no longer an assault rifle. Without a removable magazine it would be categorized the same as a bolt action. Not saying to use it but just have it just in case.

Cross Armory | SAFE MAG 2 | ALL AR-15/M4 | CA Legal AR 15 Maglock

Cross Armory SAFE MAG fixed magazine locking system prevents the removal of the magazine from your AR-15 or M4 rifle without disassembly of the action. Easy to install, SAFE MAG allows automatic magazine release when upper and lower receivers are separated, no need to push a button.

crossarmory.com

Strike Industries has a plastic part that does the same, comes in a 5 pack. You have to destroy the part to remove the mag

 

[theciviliansupply]

Lots of questions and lots of interpretations of the pending law.

To add another one. Will MA residents be able to drive north and continue to buy ammo? Or with the northern states refuse to sell to folks from the peoples Republic of Massachusetts?

I haven't read anything else in this thread, but I am a shop in NH. I will never ask for a LTC. I will never ID for magazine capacity. And on 08/2, I will still be selling whatever is legal. I will be doing compliance work as needed. Unless we get to a CA system where it's simply not possibly to legally buy firearms out of state, MA residents will always be welcome.

 

[808]

I haven't read anything else in this thread, but I am a shop in NH. I will never ask for a LTC. I will never ID for magazine capacity. And on 08/2, I will still be selling whatever is legal. I will be doing compliance work as needed. Unless we get to a CA system where it's simply not possibly to legally buy firearms out of state, MA residents will always be welcome.

A true patriotic person right here who believes in our rights! Thank you sir!

 

[kevin9]

I think you'd need to take that up with your FFL, but I could see plenty of them not wanting to touch that given the potential hassle.

And therein lies the real goal, same as when Marsha promulgated her "guidance", denying access by getting dealers to self-enforce the most restrictive interpretations out of risk-aversion. They don't care a whit about individual owners crapping their pants and over-interpreting the law, but FFLs doing so is IMNSHO a desired feature for the authors.

 

[CrackPot]

I think local FFLs are getting a little nervous about getting stuck with guns in limbo if they can't get them transferred before 8/1. I'm working on bringing one in and it's something to keep an eye on, at least this far out from Ate One.

I have stopped accepting transfers in part because of limbo but more because of time. I dont have time to log guns in and then do backgrounds for $25 a pop. Every minute im in the shop is helping customers and selling guns. I want to sell out my inventory, not sell someone else's inventory.

So no transfers and I won't order stuff for people. I know a couple dealers ordering stuff, taking full payment in advance. They are unaware that this could take effect today if the governor signs and gives it an emergency order effective today. They also seem unfamiliar with Chapter 93A and treble damages. A gun dealer has zero chances of prevailing in a 93A claim in MA.

 

[doolz]

I have stopped accepting transfers in part because of limbo but more because of time. I dont have time to log guns in and then do backgrounds for $25 a pop. Every minute im in the shop is helping customers and selling guns. I want to sell out my inventory, not sell someone else's inventory.

So no transfers and I won't order stuff for people. I know a couple dealers ordering stuff, taking full payment in advance. They are unaware that this could take effect today if the governor signs and gives it an emergency order effective today. They also seem unfamiliar with Chapter 93A and treble damages. A gun dealer has zero chances of prevailing in a 93A claim in MA.

Yup. Basically what I was told earlier.... Most MA FFLs are now denying anything being transferred in (i.e. if you purchase something online and have it shipped into your FFL). You must contact the FFL and ask if they will accept the transfer.

The section 49 summary for LTC says that the possession of large capacity and semi-automatic firearms is banned.
Does that mean ALL semi autos, including pistols? Should I assume that means the ability to buy them post 8/1, and grandfathers currently owned firearms in, right?

Also, I've always have a delayed background check. Could that potentially push something I purchase now past 8/1 and create a big problem?

Thanks to those who are sharing informed insights on this terrible legalese.

I interpret that, if you own anything on the approved roster(s) prior to 8/1, you are not affected.

If you are trying to purchase something on the approved roster(s), you will no longer be allowed to based on this new bill after 8/1.

From what it sounds like, everything on the approved rosters pre-8/1 will be solid gold for anyone who owns them and wishes to sell them privately because I can't figure out how this affects private transfers as the launguage is still there involving 4 per calendar year.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Lol to some of us that isnt punishment but would be a fringe benefit. It saves us from doing things like having to vacuum the driveway continuously.

 

[Darksideblues42]

Yeah that’s an important point.

Article 1, Section 10 of the U.S. Constitution explicitly restricts states from enacting certain types of laws. Among these prohibitions is the passing of “ex post facto” laws. An ex post facto law is one that retroactively changes the legal consequences of actions that were committed before the enactment of the law.

The specific text states: “No State shall… pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts…”

This clause ensures that states cannot:

1. Retroactively Criminalize Conduct: States cannot pass laws that make an act a crime after it has been committed. For example, if an action was legal at the time it was performed, a state cannot later pass a law making that action illegal and then prosecute individuals who performed the act before the law was passed.

2. Increase Punishments Retroactively: States cannot enact laws that increase the punishment for a crime after it has been committed. If a person committed an offense and was sentenced under the laws in place at that time, the state cannot later pass a law that imposes a harsher penalty and apply it to that person.

3. Change Legal Consequences Retroactively: States are prohibited from passing laws that alter the legal consequences or statuses of actions taken in the past. This includes laws that might change the legal status of a person or the results of previous legal actions.

The prohibition against ex post facto laws is rooted in the principle of fairness and the protection of individuals from arbitrary and vindictive legislation. It ensures that individuals have notice of the laws and the consequences of their actions at the time they act, thus protecting them from retroactive legislative changes.

The issue is that, legally speaking, Ex Post Facto doesn't apply here.

If something is declared contraband, you are prohibited (or restricted) from possession moving forward.

Cocaine used to be legal, right until it wasn't.
Alcohol was legal, then prohibition happened.
Bump stocks were legal until they weren't, now they might be again.

Ex Post Facto would be make things illegal today and prosecute you for owning it 5 years ago.

It is also why you don't have to tear apart a home every time they change the building codes. Things were done correctly and in accordance with the code at the time the home was built. When you make changes you might have to update the affected areas you are working in, like making sure a bathroom has GFCI outlets, but you typically don't have to do a to the studs rebuild to the whole house just because you update your bathroom.

 

[Reptile]

Will pre 98 Glocks (also called Mass Compliant) be available to purchase at gun shops after 8/1?

 

[CrackPot]

Yup. Basically what I was told earlier.... Most MA FFLs are now denying anything being transferred in (i.e. if you purchase something online and have it shipped into your FFL). You must contact the FFL and ask if they will accept the transfer.



I interpret that, if you own anything on the approved roster(s) prior to 8/1, you are not affected.

If you are trying to purchase something on the approved roster(s), you will no longer be allowed to based on this new bill after 8/1.

From what it sounds like, everything on the approved rosters pre-8/1 will be solid gold for anyone who owns them and wishes to sell them privately because I can't figure out how this affects private transfers as the launguage is still there involving 4 per calendar year.

Owned ON 8/1/24, not prior to 8/1/24. The difference is massively important.

You can still purchase on roster handguns after the bill goes through. What you cannot purchase are any rifles, shotguns, machine guns, frames or receivers since they are all subject to the roster and none are on the roster

Gold is having off roster handguns and grandfathered ASWs since they remain transferable in private transfers. On roster handguns are worth what they are worth today...

 

[doolz]

Owned ON 8/1/24, not prior to 8/1/24. The difference is massively important.

You can still purchase on roster handguns after the bill goes through. What you cannot purchase are any rifles, shotguns, machine guns, frames or receivers since they are all subject to the roster and none are on the roster

Gold is having off roster handguns and grandfathered ASWs since they remain transferable in private transfers. On roster handguns are worth what they are worth today...

Appreciate the clarification....... Could you break down the ON versus PRIOR a bit further?

This is where my confusion lies.

We're talking about the 4473 being completed on 8/1 not prior to correct?

 

[Ron Jablonski]

Will pre 98 Glocks (also called Mass Compliant) be available to purchase at gun shops after 8/1?

4 seasons better hope so.

 

[Reptile]

Owned ON 8/1/24, not prior to 8/1/24. The difference is massively important.

You can still purchase on roster handguns after the bill goes through. What you cannot purchase are any rifles, shotguns, machine guns, frames or receivers since they are all subject to the roster and none are on the roster

Gold is having off roster handguns and grandfathered ASWs since they remain transferable in private transfers. On roster handguns are worth what they are worth today...

I think on roster hand gun prices will go through the roof.

Glock fanatics will only be able to buy Gen 2’s.

Gen 2’s will no longer have to compete with lower priced new Glocks.

There is a finite supply of Glocks that are Mass Compliant.

They could be worth $2,000 each, now.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

The issue is that, legally speaking, Ex Post Facto doesn't apply here.

If something is declared contraband, you are prohibited (or restricted) from possession moving forward.

Cocaine used to be legal, right until it wasn't.
Alcohol was legal, then prohibition happened.
Bump stocks were legal until they weren't, now they might be again.

Ex Post Facto would be make things illegal today and prosecute you for owning it 5 years ago.

It is also why you don't have to tear apart a home every time they change the building codes. Things were done correctly and in accordance with the code at the time the home was built. When you make changes you might have to update the affected areas you are working in, like making sure a bathroom has GFCI outlets, but you typically don't have to do a to the studs rebuild to the whole house just because you update your bathroom.

You’re suggesting grandfathering as a way to ensure the law doesn’t go around of the constitution. But that’s not what is written in it. As written it is unconstitutional. If amended to grandfather pre-8/1 (or implementation date) ownership then it would be constitutional.

As written, it’s not, and will go down in flames.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Owned ON 8/1/24, not prior to 8/1/24. The difference is massively important.

You can still purchase on roster handguns after the bill goes through. What you cannot purchase are any rifles, shotguns, machine guns, frames or receivers since they are all subject to the roster and none are on the roster

Gold is having off roster handguns and grandfathered ASWs since they remain transferable in private transfers. On roster handguns are worth what they are worth today...

That depends on interpretation. It may be that as the part that is "legally the gun", a frame for a compliant handgun may be acceptable. I said may.

It is really a matter of what dealers are willing to do (likely issue) and any court decisions or official opinions on the matter (less likely).

 

[1903Collector]

Owned ON 8/1/24, not prior to 8/1/24. The difference is massively important.

What you cannot purchase are any rifles, shotguns, machine guns, frames or receivers since they are all subject to the roster and none are on the roster

I've been thinking this is just for semi's, does that include bolts, levers, pumps?

 

[Laderbuilt]

I've been thinking this is just for semi's, does that include bolts, levers, pumps?

Honestly I don’t know for sure but the way I read it is no firearms period full stop to be sold unless on the official roster.

Right now there are zero rifles of any kind on the roster as of this moment so effectively you can’t buy any rifle. Once say that Henry lever makes its way to the roster then you can purchase that. I hope I am just being dense/stupid in my interpretation but knowing this state the worst outcome is what they are after.

 

[not new guy]

Does an FFL need to have the firearm in-hand to transfer it? Assume everyone involved in the transaction trusts everyone else (I know, I know).

 

[pastera]

One attorney’s opinion is not enough to convince me one way or another, and based on everything that I’ve been reading over the past week my feeling is that most people disagree with Guida’s take.

You have repeatedly stated that post 2016 rifles will become illegal to possess. Yet that is your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions..

I think there’s a decent chance Guida is right but it seems irrational and pessimistic.

Given Guida’s history and experience, one would be less than

Enforced or applied (with enforcement to follow)? Meaning 8/1 is still the operative date, they just won't prosecute anyone for 90 days?

You would have 90 days to get rid of anything not conforming to the new law

 

[71montess]

Could a rifle be kept out of State or must it be transferred at an FFL to another ?

 

[Spooonnss]

Can you still carry preban mags as well as purchase after 8/1/2024? What's up with the motor vehicle laws saying you cannot carry loaded high cap firearms. If the mag is preban wouldn't it be exempt from this?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Can you still carry preban mags as well as purchase after 8/1/2024? What's up with the motor vehicle laws saying you cannot carry loaded high cap firearms. If the mag is preban wouldn't it be exempt from this?

Only in the sense that any transport is legally carry. There is a test of criteria for grandfathering legality, and defensive carry is not on that list.

 

[Hardwired]

You are always going to have someone that refuses to ship something to MA.

PSA post Healey bag of sh1t. Screw them.