The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

Atlantis said:
The ATF has set precedent that post 2016 POSSESSION is lawful. That’s indisputable.

The “crime” of failing to register does not constitute unlawful possession. Setting aside the fact that, for example, you could lawfully move here 2017-2024, with MA compliant AR, and LAWFULLY not “register” it, and ATF would approve your SBR.


This new language can’t retroactively make your actions in 2017 unlawful. I don’t care how you define registration/transfer, etc. It simply doesn’t matter. Per MGL up to 8/1 2024, a MA compliant AR was LAWFULLY POSSESSED. You can’t retroactively change that by tying it “registration visa vie EFA-10”.

The example of the person who moves here with a MA compliant rifle is the clearest example I can give.
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My contention is treating the transaction portal database as if it doesn't exist - it does and could come into play for some people
That Healy's declaration had no force of law is not under dispute - at the time she lacked authority and after Loper any doubt was removed.

But we still need to understand how copies and duplicates that fall under the exemption (in the portal prior to 7/20/16) and those relying on the 8/1/24 date will be treated differently if they do get different treatment.
The language is weird since if as we all expect everything that's legally possessed on 8/1 is exempt regardless of it's "pre-Healy" status.
So if pre-Healy actually has meaning then having a portal entry may be the difference between lawful possession and a nasty felony.
 
center442 said:
"Justice delayed is justice denied." Since we're talking about an enumerated right in the Constitution my hope would be that a court would move quickly to correct this, but then again, we are talking about Massachusetts, so who knows.
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Massachusetts courts consider the 2nd a collective right administered by and for the state.
We are very unlikely to see any relief from them
 
DJBrad said:
When mid-late last year we had that disinflationary move I purchased a putload of optics, uppers, parts, etc. Probably about $10k worth as I knew prices that low weren’t gonna last long and here we are now with this shitty bill and the probability that many online retailers will say, “Sorry we don’t ship there”. Hasn’t really happened yet but some things since summer 2023 no one can find since it’s dried right up and no longer available.


This doesn’t even include ammo which if one would be wise they would load up on .22lr, .380, 9mm, and a few other calibers that are at a bargain price not too far from the Trump Slump of 2017-2018. Battle calibers are pricey but that shouldn’t stop the loading up on the value driven calibers.
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I went crazy just prior to and during the Trump years, but am always looking for deals With what I have I don't have to worry about panic buying, fortunately. I learned my lesson after Sandy Hook, once things settled back down I stocked up on anything and everything.
 
pastera said:
My contention is treating the transaction portal database as if it doesn't exist - it does and could come into play for some people
That Healy's declaration had no force of law is not under dispute - at the time she lacked authority and after Loper any doubt was removed.

But we still need to understand how copies and duplicates that fall under the exemption (in the portal prior to 7/20/16) and those relying on the 8/1/24 date will be treated differently if they do get different treatment.
The language is weird since if as we all expect everything that's legally possessed on 8/1 is exempt regardless of it's "pre-Healy" status.
So if pre-Healy actually has meaning then having a portal entry may be the difference between lawful possession and a nasty felony.
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I feel the worst for people who paid big bucks for pre-94 rifles that weren’t in the state before 7/20. Under the new law they’re no different than someone with a brand new lower bought today.
 
MAJoe said:
I feel the worst for people who paid big bucks for pre-94 rifles that weren’t in the state before 7/20. Under the new law they’re no different than someone with a brand new lower bought today.
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Were pre 2016’s allowed the evil features? If yes- there is indeed no difference, if not, there still is a difference.
 
maltc said:
Were pre 2016’s allowed the evil features? If yes- there is indeed no difference, if not, there still is a difference.
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That is like saying there is no difference between a Pre-1986 transferrable full auto and the identical gun not in the NFA registry.

True and false at the same time. Schrödinger would love it.
 
MAJoe said:
LTCs issued prior to the new training being implemented are also exempt.
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Yes I know that is what I wrote. So if new applicants are required to complete the new training that has not been developed yet how will be they able to apply for an LTC? It looks as though the LTC process for new LTC's would have to be suspended untill the new training is developed and put in place. It dosent seem to have any provesion to do business as usual untill the new training is developed and put in place. I have bold lettered the section in the bills text that states 1575 No application for the issuance of a firearm identification card or license to carry shall be accepted1576 or processed by the licensing authority without such certificate attached thereto; provided. They are refering to a certificate that dosent exest yet and can't untill the new training is developed and implemented.
From GOAL

Key Points to Note:

  • Training Grandfathering: Any license issued on or before August 1, 2024, along with all renewals, will be grandfathered under the current training requirements.
  • New Applicant Requirements: Only new applicants will need to complete disengagement training and live fire training, along with other new requirements.
  • New Training Curriculum: The colonel of the state police, in consultation with the municipal police training committee, will create a new training curriculum that must include:
    • Injury prevention
    • Suicide prevention
    • Disengagement tactics
    • Live fire exercises
    • Completion of a written exam
SECTION 74. Training • Limits Hunter Education certificate to an FID Card.• Exempts those who hold an LTC or FID prior to August 1, 2024 for renewals• The colonel of state police, in consultation with the municipal police training committee, shall create a new training curriculum. Must include:eek: Injury prevention.o Suicide prevention.o Disengagement tactics.o Live fire.o Completion of a written exam.• The colonel shall create a written examination and establish minimum requirements to pass.• It appears that the state will send the certificate to successful students.• Licensing authority must confirm with the state that a certificate has been issued prior to processing a license application

Acctual Text from the bill:
Persons lawfully1570 possessing a firearm identification card or license to carry firearms on August 1, 2024, shall be1571 exempt from this section upon expiration of such card or license and when applying for renewal1572 of such licensure as required under this chapter; provided, however, that persons possessing a1573 firearms identification card or license to carry firearms prior to the implementation of live1574 firearms trainings as required in this section shall also be exempt from such requirement. No1575 application for the issuance of a firearm identification card or license to carry shall be accepted1576 or processed by the licensing authority without such certificate attached thereto; provided,1577 however, that this section shall not apply to: (i) any officer, agent or employee of the1578 commonwealth or any state of the United States; (ii) any member of the military or other service1579 of any state or of the United States; or (iii) any duly authorized law enforcement officer, agent or1580 employee of any municipality of the commonwealth; provided, however, that any such person1581 described in clauses (i) to (iii), inclusive, shall be authorized by a competent authority to carry or1582 possess the firearm so carried or possessed and shall be acting within the scope of their duties.
 
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JDL said:
Great question. I want my grandson to get his LTC-c (FID) he is 20 years old and we were going to wait until he was 21 in 7 month and apply for an LTC-A. I ran him through the current class two days ago and have contacted the licensing officer in our town by the prescribed email method to schedule an interview. We have heard nothing. As far as the text in the new law is it states LTC's that are all ready in the mail prior to 08/01/2024 are OK all others will have to take the new training. The new training program has not been developed yet so it looks as though all new LTC's will be on hold untill the new training program is available. This dosent affect renewals. So the way this law is written all new LTC's are on hold indefinitely untill the new training program and the new certified training instructors are trained and certified. None of this is outlined in the new law except no more LTC's will be issued untill the new training is available and everything is in place.
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Yeah, there is no way I can get it to happen as quick as you did. I can probably get it into a classic Cape gun works on Sunday, but he'll never get in to see the licensing officer anytime in the near future. We live in Lowell, and nobody has been able to talk to the licensing officer since covid. He doesn't return emails and he doesn't return phone calls
 
inkdesigner said:
Yeah, there is no way I can get it to happen as quick as you did. I can probably get it into a classic Cape gun works on Sunday, but he'll never get in to see the licensing officer anytime in the near future. We live in Lowell, and nobody has been able to talk to the licensing officer since covid. He doesn't return emails and he doesn't return phone calls
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It dosent matter if took the class now or not read my post #2,170/2,173 above it will explain.
 
In theory. A lot times cops use them to get rid of a person who is being a PITA. They end up in an ED where many are discharged after a few hours.

If you want to PM I can go into it in more depth. I know how the system is supposed to work, and how it often does.


sig shooter said:
One has to be a “Danger to themselves or others” to be sectioned: Active suicidal ideation with a plan, homicidal ideation, and severe psychosis are what generally land you in a psych ward. I worked in psych for a good part of my life. Some hospitals abused the system and had a reputation for sectioning people for feeling “blue” or “depressed”. This was likely due to fear of liability if someone killed themselves after being cleared by psych. Most therapists use sec 12 as a last resort and will do anything to keep clients out of a psych hospital.
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JDL said:
Yes I know that is what I wrote. So if new applicants are required to complete the new training that has not been developed yet how will be they able to apply for an LTC? It looks as though the LTC process for new LTC's would have to be suspended untill the new training is developed and put in place. It dosent seem to have any provesion to do business as usual untill the new training is developed and put in place. I have bold lettered the section in the bills text that states 1575 No application for the issuance of a firearm identification card or license to carry shall be accepted1576 or processed by the licensing authority without such certificate attached thereto; provided. They are refering to a certificate that dosent exest yet and can't untill the new training is developed and implemented.
From GOAL

Key Points to Note:

  • Training Grandfathering: Any license issued on or before August 1, 2024, along with all renewals, will be grandfathered under the current training requirements.
  • New Applicant Requirements: Only new applicants will need to complete disengagement training and live fire training, along with other new requirements.
  • New Training Curriculum: The colonel of the state police, in consultation with the municipal police training committee, will create a new training curriculum that must include:
    • Injury prevention
    • Suicide prevention
    • Disengagement tactics
    • Live fire exercises
    • Completion of a written exam
SECTION 74. Training • Limits Hunter Education certificate to an FID Card.• Exempts those who hold an LTC or FID prior to August 1, 2024 for renewals• The colonel of state police, in consultation with the municipal police training committee, shall create a new training curriculum. Must include:eek: Injury prevention.o Suicide prevention.o Disengagement tactics.o Live fire.o Completion of a written exam.• The colonel shall create a written examination and establish minimum requirements to pass.• It appears that the state will send the certificate to successful students.• Licensing authority must confirm with the state that a certificate has been issued prior to processing a license application

Acctual Text from the bill:
Persons lawfully1570 possessing a firearm identification card or license to carry firearms on August 1, 2024, shall be1571 exempt from this section upon expiration of such card or license and when applying for renewal1572 of such licensure as required under this chapter; provided, however, that persons possessing a1573 firearms identification card or license to carry firearms prior to the implementation of live1574 firearms trainings as required in this section shall also be exempt from such requirement. No1575 application for the issuance of a firearm identification card or license to carry shall be accepted1576 or processed by the licensing authority without such certificate attached thereto; provided,1577 however, that this section shall not apply to: (i) any officer, agent or employee of the1578 commonwealth or any state of the United States; (ii) any member of the military or other service1579 of any state or of the United States; or (iii) any duly authorized law enforcement officer, agent or1580 employee of any municipality of the commonwealth; provided, however, that any such person1581 described in clauses (i) to (iii), inclusive, shall be authorized by a competent authority to carry or1582 possess the firearm so carried or possessed and shall be a
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This just screams injunction they haven't developed the curriculum yet any we know how slow the msp is basically if your a newbie once this takes effect there's no way to apply for an LTC
 
drgrant said:
I'm about 98% sure most non box, non MA dealers will still be moving long guns to MA people that don't qualify as AWs because dealers outside of MA are not bound to the "list" doctrine.
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For certain. I’ll temporarily have to do my sales of MA long guns on Amherst St in Nashua until this roster crap is sorted out. At least I have a NH location to keep me alive. Similarly I’ll need to have everything shipped there so I can lawfully transport it into the state.

Things will be “fun” for a while after the travesty of a law takes effect.
 
El_Guapo77 said:
This just screams injunction they haven't developed the curriculum yet any we know how slow the msp is basically if your a newbie once this takes effect there's no way to apply for an LTC
Click to expand...
Washington state kept moving the effective date of their Bruen response bill to enable them to be fully prepared and implemented. I don’t anticipate this level of maturity and decorum from our legislature so they will let the courts resolve any problems for them. Short of SCOTUS all state and federal courts are populated by statist lefties. I anticipate zero joy in court on any second amendment based issues. We need other arguments to get any traction.
 
Amputee Marksman said:
Dude, wakeup! You need to jump over to Stoughton for the real action. 🤣
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Nah I’m good. I already tricked a good woman into marrying me. No need to ruin it. It ain’t gonna happen a second time.

That would be like hitting the lottery, get struck by lightning, and bit by a shark all in the same week.
 
MGnoob said:
I still can’t wrap my head around any of this if you’re average person can’t read and understand it that it’s not posted in every f***ing language on the planet how are you supposed to comply?

I’ll try to figure it out once it is signed… even if you had superhuman intelligence there’s so much interpretation going on it’s impossible
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I wonder if the bill would make more or less sense if it were translated into Swahili?
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Plesae explain your reasoning?

How does putting a referendum question on the ballot change any laws, or legality of enforcing them, before a vote is even taken?

Were contractors permitted to pay their non-union employees on public works projects less than the prevailing union wage while the referendum to repail the prevailing wage law was on the ballot?
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We can't allow our Constitutional Rights to be voted on and at the mercy of someone's else's opinion.
 
not new guy said:
So what happens if everyone consigns their post-2016 AWs with an FFL prior to 8/1 and takes them back after that date? They all become automatically grandfathered because they were legally possessed on 8
Click to expand...

I was only half joking about this, but if people were concerned about guns they hold now being ruled illegal to possess once this goes live this really does seem like a loophole.
 
Also, if I had to guess the legislature did not have outside, big law firm help drafting this bill. They either did it with in-house people, the legislators themselves wrote it, and/or they used shitty lawyers loaned to them by Bloomturd or some shit. That’s good news for us.
 
MAJoe said:
I feel the worst for people who paid big bucks for pre-94 rifles that weren’t in the state before 7/20. Under the new law they’re no different than someone with a brand new lower bought today.
Click to expand...
They got to enjoy an unmolested gun for years without worry.
To some that is worth the price difference.
 
inkdesigner said:
Yeah, there is no way I can get it to happen as quick as you did. I can probably get it into a classic Cape gun works on Sunday, but he'll never get in to see the licensing officer anytime in the near future. We live in Lowell, and nobody has been able to talk to the licensing officer since covid. He doesn't return emails and he doesn't return phone calls
Click to expand...
If he has an FID, he's covered.
If he has a hunter's ed cert it looks like he is covered

1564 Section 131P. (a) Any person applying for the issuance of a license or card under sections 129B, 131 or 131F shall, in addition to the requirements set forth in this chapter, submit to the1566 licensing authority a basic firearms safety certificate; provided, however, that a certificate issued under section 14 of chapter 131 evidencing satisfactory completion of a hunter education course shall serve as a valid substitute for a basic firearms safety certificate required under this section for the issuance of a firearm identification card pursuant to section 129B. Persons lawfully possessing a firearm identification card or license to carry firearms on August 1, 2024, shall be exempt from this section upon expiration of such card or license and when applying for renewal of such licensure as required under this chapter; provided, however, that persons possessing a firearms identification card or license to carry firearms prior to the implementation of live firearms trainings as required in this section shall also be exempt from such requirement
Click to expand...

So a screwed up workaround is a hunter's ed certificate -> FID -> LTC app if you are in limbo until the course is actually implemented.

This is the one area where we have a decent chance at an injunction since there is no available remedy. One cannot be made fully whole for a right denied or delayed.
 
El_Guapo77 said:
This just screams injunction they haven't developed the curriculum yet any we know how slow the msp is basically if your a newbie once this takes effect there's no way to apply for an LTC
Click to expand...
It does but will likely require a GVR from SCOTUS.
We likely won't get direct relief since the Justice assigned to the 1st circuit is the ultimately unqualified Katanji Brown Jackson.
 

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