The public schools suck thread.

Just understand that most LEOs get maybe 50 or 100 rds/yr to "practice" just before qualification, thats it! Due to budget issues and the brass thinking it's not real important as long as the "scorecard" gets filled in for CYA.

Therefore most LEOs don't practice sufficient to build/keep their shooting skills up.

Notable Exceptions are LEOs who join forums like this and/or join gun clubs on their own nickle. Those guys/gals shoot either because they like it or because they recognize that it could save their life (or that of a fellow officer/innocent person) someday. Kudos to all of them.
 
LenS said:
Just understand that most LEOs get maybe 50 or 100 rds/yr to "practice" just before qualification, thats it! Due to budget issues and the brass thinking it's not real important as long as the "scorecard" gets filled in for CYA.

Therefore most LEOs don't practice sufficient to build/keep their shooting skills up.
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They get more free ammo than I do.

What's the next excuse?
 
LenS said:
"We discourage self help!" - AG Marsha Croakley [puke2]
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I dislike Coakley as much as the next gun owner, but 'self help' is a legal term with a specific meaning. I was pissed when she said that until I talked to a lawyer friend. Self help in the legal sense means taking the law in your own hands rather than getting the courts involved. There are cases where this is accepted, like repossessing cars for non payment of loans they secure, and cases where it isn't, like vigilantism.
 
jar said:
I dislike Coakley as much as the next gun owner, but 'self help' is a legal term with a specific meaning. I was pissed when she said that until I talked to a lawyer friend. Self help in the legal sense means taking the law in your own hands rather than getting the courts involved. There are cases where this is accepted, like repossessing cars for non payment of loans they secure, and cases where it isn't, like vigilantism.
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Yeah, but that doesn't make the comment any less absurd given the context of the incident that occurred before she made that statement. Doesn't matter what it means, the layperson is going to hear "If someone molests your kid there's nothing you can do about it, and we like it that way". That's the basic distillation most people will derive from legalese. Her response may have been "legally correct" but that doesn't make it any less reprehensible. She should have just kept her mouth shut. Then again, if she was capable of doing that, she wouldn't be Martha. [laugh]

-Mike
 
jar said:
I dislike Coakley as much as the next gun owner, but 'self help' is a legal term with a specific meaning. I was pissed when she said that until I talked to a lawyer friend. Self help in the legal sense means taking the law in your own hands rather than getting the courts involved. There are cases where this is accepted, like repossessing cars for non payment of loans they secure, and cases where it isn't, like vigilantism.
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Since this was her press conference wrt the man who slugged a pedophile who was in the process of molesting his Son in a supermarket rest room . . . running to the court instead of hitting the pedophile wasn't the most practical thing to do! [She was going to prosecute the Father . . . until the pedophile (who was an illegal alien) skipped the country.]

Marsha is a moron, plain and simple.

Jose said:
They get more free ammo than I do.

What's the next excuse?
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Laziness! Most (that don't take it seriously) will NOT practice unless:

- they are paid overtime,
- given free ammo,
- given free range time,
- and someone else will clean their gun.

NO excuse from me, but I actually heard this crap from fellow officers during my years on the PD! I've offered to bring more officers than I can recall to the range with me as my guest . . . but none have ever taken me up on it. Probably because I won't pay them OT, give them free ammo or clean their guns for them. [thinking] [frown]
 
LenS said:
Laziness! Most (that don't take it seriously) will NOT practice unless:

- they are paid overtime,
- given free ammo,
- given free range time,
- and someone else will clean their gun.
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Cops are like school teachers? Very distressing. They have almost nothing else in common .... except The Union. [thinking]
 
Attracting violence

ravyn said:
"Guns attract violence" I almost laughed when I heard that. The woman who said it to me had a very serious look on her face. As if defending myself from some lunatic would be an act of violence rather than an act of self defense.
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There is a small grain of truth to that one, but it would be "Fools with guns attract violence."

I have heard interviews with a couple of folks who said something like "After I started carrying, I'd walk down streets I used to avoid." Massad Ayoob has written about the fallacy of thinking "I'm carrying, so I don't have to take crap from anybody."

I'd argue that carrying a gun for self-defense bears the responsibility of doing your best to avoid situations where you might have to use it.

If carrying makes you LESS careful than you would be if you were not carrying, then you are setting yourself up for trouble. If you think you can go looking for trouble and then rely on your gun to save you, you're a fool.

But it's not the gun that's the problem -- it's the owner.
 
Dogdad said:
There is a small grain of truth to that one, but it would be "Fools with guns attract violence."

I have heard interviews with a couple of folks who said something like "After I started carrying, I'd walk down streets I used to avoid." Massad Ayoob has written about the fallacy of thinking "I'm carrying, so I don't have to take crap from anybody."

I'd argue that carrying a gun for self-defense bears the responsibility of doing your best to avoid situations where you might have to use it.

If carrying makes you LESS careful than you would be if you were not carrying, then you are setting yourself up for trouble. If you think you can go looking for trouble and then rely on your gun to save you, you're a fool.

But it's not the gun that's the problem -- it's the owner.
Click to expand...

Fortunately most people I know who carry are more careful than when they didn't carry. There was an article posted not long ago here about a liberal who decided to carry. He came to the conclusion, like I do, that carrying imposes such a moral standard on the individual that you go out of your way to avoid trouble. Of course, there are the immature folks who might behave differently, but the statistics at least show that they are in the minority.
 
theGringo said:
Cops are like school teachers? Very distressing. They have almost nothing else in common .... except The Union. [thinking]
Click to expand...

Are you f***ing kidding me? [angry][angry2]

I guess my wife doing 10hrs per week of work at home, spending 2 weeks (unpaid) setting up her classroom in the summer, and dishing out $700/yr of our hard earned money because the district can't provide enough supplies is JUST like a lazy cop who won't go to the range.
 
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Stratocaster1422 said:
Are you f***ing kidding me? [angry][angry2]

I guess my wife doing 10hrs per week of work at home, spending 2 weeks (unpaid) setting up her classroom in the summer, and dishing out $700/yr of our hard earned money because the district can't provide enough supplies is JUST like a lazy cop who won't go to the range.
Click to expand...

With all respect, one similarity is that the job often is viewed (or self-described) as a service or sacrifice when in fact it is simply employment. Take your example. As a matter of simple logic one would conclude that the costs you mention must be offset by salary, benefits, or pleasure such that the total benefits exceed the total cost. Furthermore, the net level of benefits in your example must be greater than those available in any other job. Thus, far from sacrifice, the example you offer can only indicate a person who is employed in the best possible job available. Now that fact is true of any employed person, otherwise they would take another available job, or, none being available, would self-evidently be experiencing their greatest job opportunity. Police officers and teachers are just people with jobs. Those jobs have costs and benefits, and employment is voluntary. Any claim of sacrifice is just self-serving nonsense. Logically, people who choose these jobs are doing what is best for them, even if part of the benefit is a warm and fuzzy feeling that they are doing something unusually good.
 
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I'm not saying my wife is some hero for getting paid diddly squat, using her own compensation to make up for the inadequacies of the town budget, taking home work, dealing with morons that spit out obnoxious kids, and being charged with performing more parenting than her students get at home.

She loves teaching and both of us wish that she didn't. So of course she could go and do something else and any of her "sacrifices" are self inflicted due to the desire to perform well doing something she loves.

I'm saying don't call every teacher lazy because you THINK he/she shows up at 9 and leaves at 2 and that's it.

Just like you can't roll up every cop into the donut stuffing, fat ass, lazy, revenue generator stereotype.
 
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Timber said:
never argue with the husband of a teacher about whether or not they have a real job. it's like competing in the special olympics. even if you win, you're still retarded.
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+1

Or in my case never argue with a teacher about their over paid low hour job.
 
I'm not saying my wife is some hero for getting paid diddly squat, using her own compensation to make up for the inadequacies of the town budget, taking home work
Click to expand...
People in the private sector often work late, get called on weekends, etc. - with no additional compensation. It's goes with the territory of having an exempt position.

I would gladly cough up $700/year for supplies for my job if I got a defined benefit pension with payouts relative to salary that teachers get (I'd be able to retire today if I had a teacher style pension); lifetime medical; I was protected from layoff except on a FIFO basis after 3 years on the job; and my employer would have to show specific cause rather than simply declare "your services are no longer required" to terminate me unless they first terminated everyone with my job skills hired after me. Yeah, some of the details you cite suck - but there are many benefits to the public sector that are virtually unheard of in private sector employment.
 
Timber said:
never argue with the husband of a teacher about whether or not they have a real job. it's like competing in the special olympics. even if you win, you're still retarded.
Click to expand...

derek said:
+1 Or in my case never argue with a teacher about their over paid low hour job.
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to bailing out these public employee defined-benefit union pension plans while my investments erode in value, face higher taxes on returns, and my social security "benefits" end up being means tested away.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
People in the private sector often work late, get called on weekends, etc. - with no additional compensation. It's goes with the territory of having an exempt position.

I would gladly cough up $700/year for supplies for my job if I got a defined benefit pension; lifetime medical; I was protected from layoff except on a FIFO basis after 3 years on the job; and my employer would have to show specific cause rather than simply declare "your services are no longer required" to terminate me. Yeah, some of the details you cite suck - but there are many benefits to the public sector that are virtually unheard of in private sector employment.
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Ok, totally missing the point here.

Whatever, doesn't matter. It's not on topic. Continue on with the conversation.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
but there are many benefits to the public sector that are virtually unheard of in private sector employment.
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What you mean like 3 months off in the summer. Three weeks additional weeks off during the school year, and 7 misc no school days, plus 3 staff development days which are nothing more than coffee talk and get away from the kids days.

http://www.hw-regional.k12.ma.us/HWRSDschoolcalendars/2010-2011 Calendar.pdf

Where else can you work 67% of the regular work days a year and only 7 to 8 hours per day with a full inflated salary and guaranteed 80% of that lofty salary for the rest of your life when you retire?

Look at any budget of any town in the country, half goes to PUBLIC EDUCATION and PUBLIC EDUCATION kicks out socialist double digit IQ morons.

Don't get me started on how hard teaching is.
 
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Stratocaster1422 said:
I'm not saying my wife is some hero for getting paid diddly squat, using her own compensation to make up for the inadequacies of the town budget, taking home work, dealing with morons that spit out obnoxious kids, and being charged with performing more parenting than her students get at home.

She loves teaching and both of us wish that she didn't. So of course she could go and do something else and any of her "sacrifices" are self inflicted due to the desire to perform well doing something she loves.

I'm saying don't call every teacher lazy because you THINK he/she shows up at 9 and leaves at 2 and that's it.

Just like you can't roll up every cop into the donut stuffing, fat ass, lazy, revenue generator stereotype.
Click to expand...

It's just a job. If somebody can find a job that takes little work and has easy hours, good for them. And, if the job instead (as you mention) has long hours and lots of problems, accept it or do something else. But pointing out these problems is a meaningless exercise. Everyone who works for a living can list problems with their job.

I have nothing good or bad to say about teaching as a profession. The same goes for engineers, janitors, car salesmen, doctors, or preachers (well, maybe not preachers -- that's pretty bottom-of-the-barrel). The problem and vitriol fired at teachers (and police in part) comes from a (not universally) expressed sanctimoniousness. I have no interest in how hard it is to clean bathrooms for a living, nor do I give a damn if somebody thinks it's a very important and essential function necessary to the future of the world. The same goes for teachers. Do the job or quit. I don't care. I'll do the same with my profession.
 
I had a guy at a gun shop in western MA tell me that I could not buy the same hollowpoint rounds that are issued to the PD of the town that I live in. Ahahahaaaaa!!!!! What?!!

This comment came after I asked for a box of Federal .45acp HP's and the guy asked what town I lived in. When I explained that I lived on the Cape and was just visiting some friends in Holyoke, he said "better find out what the cops in your town carry before you go carrying the same rounds as them". What a chode.
 

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