Ultimate SHTF rifle???

[PappyM3]

I was talking to my nephew about if there was some societal collapse about how he would get to my parents’ house on lake winni 100 miles from MA. I told him he won’t be driving, even if in a situation where cars work, the traffic would be at a standstill and highways would be worthless. His best bet would be to try to bike or go on foot, and probably deal with people trying to take whatever he has on him.

Dirt bike and utilize railway lines as much as possible to avoid other people.

 

[Picton]

Those electric bikes are looking kind of appealing. Throw a solar cell connection on it so it can charge while not riding…

Sure.

Until someone shoots him for it.

 

[SS1]

Funny how all this hardware in this thread and no actual rifle's from actual shit hit the fan scenarios
So I give exhibit A

Good enough to get the Ruskies out

 

[Broc Tuah]

I was talking to my nephew about if there was some societal collapse about how he would get to my parents’ house on lake winni 100 miles from MA. I told him he won’t be driving, even if in a situation where cars work, the traffic would be at a standstill and highways would be worthless. His best bet would be to try to bike or go on foot, and probably deal with people trying to take whatever he has on him.

Forget about walking with the average NES loadout.

But if it ever happens, and it is as bad as most of NES thinks it will get, I would imagine the first 2 or 3 days should be fine with cops around and so on.

So if you are in really good shape and don't try to be a moron carrying 1K rounds of 308 and 4 guns, you should be able to walk 100 miles in 4 or 5 days. But good luck walking 20-25 miles per day.

 

[dcmdon]

But good luck walking 20-25 miles per day.

Unless you've done it in the past.
This is where hiking and backpacking are great ways too practice what you think will work. Packs, shoes, clothes, water, etc.

Although I'd say 10 miles in the white mountains is more than equivalent to 25 miles on or next to a road. It's all about time on feet, not actual distance.

By the way, are any of you continually amazed when you read about the events of April 19 1775 and how the minute men from all over the area converged on Concord, Lexington, Arlington, etc, in just a few hours.

The Acton Minutemen mustered and arrived where the action was in just a few hours, all on foot.

 

[frenchman]

Unless you've done it in the past.
This is where hiking and backpacking are great ways too practice what you think will work. Packs, shoes, clothes, water, etc.

Although I'd say 10 miles in the white mountains is more than equivalent to 25 miles on or next to a road. It's all about time on feet, not actual distance.

By the way, are any of you continually amazed when you read about the events of April 19 1775 and how the minute men from all over the area converged on Concord, Lexington, Arlington, etc, in just a few hours.

The Acton Minutemen mustered and arrived where the action was in just a few hours, all on foot.

Different times, different men. They were much more resilient, knew nature, terrain and environment. They were hard working farmers and craftsmen, not cubicle monkeys and desk jockeys. Today’s modern day American has very little in common with those people.

 

[teamRR]

Different times, different men. They were much more resilient, knew nature, terrain and environment. They were hard working farmers and craftsmen, not cubicle monkeys and desk jockeys. Today’s modern day American has very little in common with those people.

I don't disagree, though today, even in SHTF we would still benefit from technology in the form of clothing like thinsulate, waterproof materials, far better footwear, tarps, ways to start fires, many things that will live well into an apocalypse if humans do, which help make up for experience and ability.

And although the typical human might be comparatively weak, overweight, and inexperienced in any form of exercise or exertion - the examples who are into training, ie for example marathons are run for fun now days, there would likely have been not equivalents to today's athletes back then - nutrition, medicine, and free time, in the beginnings of a SHTF (before people really get starved & sick) a certain percentage of the population will likely be surprisingly fit for duty - the rest will catch up or die, but we still benefit from things like proper nutrition and vaccines during our childhood (bones are stronger, less exposure to crippling ailments, correction of defects when possible etc etc).

 

[Mountain]

Somebody was ridiculing / sh!tting on the M1A / M14 platform. While my first choice would be a 'recce' set up AR15 in good ol' 5.56, the M1A has its merits. See post #44:

M14 / M1A Platform - Yea or Nay

I've won a few silvers at Camp Ethan Allen, a bronze at Camp Perry Nationals, and plenty of trinkets including gold / top score at local matches in competition against AR's with free float barrels. In weather around 13F and lower, I'd prefer my Bula M14 over an AR.

 

[AJK129]

Somebody was ridiculing / sh!tting on the M1A / M14 platform. While my first choice would be a 'recce' set up AR15 in good ol' 5.56, the M1A has its merits. See post #44:

M14 / M1A Platform - Yea or Nay

I've won a few silvers at Camp Ethan Allen, a bronze at Camp Perry Nationals, and plenty of trinkets including gold / top score at local matches in competition against AR's with free float barrels. In weather around 13F and lower, I'd prefer my Bula M14 over an AR.

I think someone like you, a good shooter, will benefit from those more. Hand a random rifle to a random person and the ar15 will perform better the majority of the time

 

[Mountain]

I think someone like you, a good shooter, will benefit from those more. Hand a random rifle to a random person and the ar15 will perform better the majority of the time

Generally I agree and honestly, in most cases I'd lean towards the AR. Lighter, WAY easier to carry more ammo, and the most common platform. There are some positives to the M1A like the sight radius, ergos possibly better for some, and the 'arctic' cold capability (as long as it doesn't get wet then frozen).

 

[Coyote33]

how the minute men from all over the area converged on Concord, Lexington, Arlington, etc, in just a few hours.
The Acton Minutemen mustered and arrived where the action was in just a few hours, all on foot.

I would have guessed horses.

 

[Picton]

I would have guessed horses.

Almost nobody back then could have afforded riding horses.

 

[fencer]

Different times, different men. They were much more resilient, knew nature, terrain and environment. They were hard working farmers and craftsmen, not cubicle monkeys and desk jockeys. Today’s modern day American has very little in common with those people.

The Marine Corps expects 20- 24 miles, full ruck, in formation, in 5 hours.
That pace is a pretty brisk walk.

 

[frenchman]

The Marine Corps expects 20- 24 miles, full ruck, in formation, in 5 hours.
That pace is a pretty brisk walk.

Yes. BUT… They’re United States Marines. I was comparing 1770ies farmers and craftsmen to today’s desk jockeys and cubicle monkeys, not to professional warriors with a reputation of being some of the best infantrymen on the planet.

 

[Broc Tuah]

Yes. BUT… They’re United States Marines. I was comparing 1770ies farmers and craftsmen to today’s desk jockeys and cubicle monkeys, not to professional warriors with a reputation of being some of the best infantrymen on the planet.

I think...

1. Back then people walked everywhere.
2. They were not carrying 50-100lbs on their backs.

But also, back then people had sh*t health, shoes were not great and so on ...

So yes, what they did was impressive and not easy.

 

[193rdsoldier]

The Marine Corps expects 20- 24 miles, full ruck, in formation, in 5 hours.
That pace is a pretty brisk walk.

Brisk walk with some shuffling/jogging mixed in.

 

[PappyM3]

Almost nobody back then could have afforded riding horses.

 

[LakeTrout]

HS510C Holosun red dot shake-awake On 45 degree mount for close range

Hopefully Very close range. Like, could have saved the money on the optic because your muzzle is in contact with the target close range. Because mounting an optic on that hand guard is not an option for being able to keep zero.

 

[PappyM3]

Unless you've done it in the past.
This is where hiking and backpacking are great ways too practice what you think will work. Packs, shoes, clothes, water, etc.

Although I'd say 10 miles in the white mountains is more than equivalent to 25 miles on or next to a road. It's all about time on feet, not actual distance.

By the way, are any of you continually amazed when you read about the events of April 19 1775 and how the minute men from all over the area converged on Concord, Lexington, Arlington, etc, in just a few hours.

The Acton Minutemen mustered and arrived where the action was in just a few hours, all on foot.

The minutemen did, yes. But they were a small, select subset of the militia. Younger and fitter. They also were required to have all their gear ready to grab to fight for a couple days. They didn’t bring a sustainment load with them, just a short term combat load. They were designed to be ready on a moment’s notice, but only fight long enough for the other militia to arrive.

 

[vcman]

Somebody was ridiculing / sh!tting on the M1A / M14 platform. While my first choice would be a 'recce' set up AR15 in good ol' 5.56, the M1A has its merits. See post #44:

M14 / M1A Platform - Yea or Nay

I've won a few silvers at Camp Ethan Allen, a bronze at Camp Perry Nationals, and plenty of trinkets including gold / top score at local matches in competition against AR's with free float barrels. In weather around 13F and lower, I'd prefer my Bula M14 over an AR.

How u get the m14 to shoot that good?from what i understand m14 and mini m14 shoot about 3moa at 100 yards(i shoot ar10 and bolt action and sks,that all i know)

 

[G4Y4HK]

No love for an AK underfolder? No fancy optics to get fried during an EMP, you can lube it with piss in the field, goes bang every time and at least 8 MOA accuracy. Good enough for 100 feet engagements easily. Can get one of their newer 'forged trunnion' Pioneer AKs for under $700. Or for your rich bois, there's always the classic Norincos and Arsenals if you can find em.

 

[DarthRevan]

No love for an AK underfolder? No fancy optics to get fried during an EMP, you can lube it with piss in the field, goes bang every time and at least 8 MOA accuracy. Good enough for 100 feet engagements easily. Can get one of their newer 'forged trunnion' Pioneer AKs for under $700. Or for your rich bois, there's always the classic Norincos and Arsenals if you can find em.

View attachment 931056

Another rifle I don’t need and really want.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Another rifle I don’t need and really want.

I keep hearing 'Pioneer Arms? LOL GAY'. Sure it's made in Poland in the same city Radom as their military rifle guys but they're a garage band AK assembler and used to crank out absolute shit products but the latest forged trunnion AKs were a nice swan song before they went belly up. Could be a nice collectible in 20 years time.

 

[DarthRevan]

I keep hearing 'Pioneer Arms? LOL GAY'. Sure it's made in Poland in the same city Radom as their military rifle guys but they're a garage band AK assembler and used to crank out absolute shit products but the latest forged trunnion AKs were a nice swan song before they went belly up. Could be a nice collectible in 20 years time.

I meant the platform as a whole not Pioneer specifically.

 

[Mountain]

How u get the m14 to shoot that good?from what i understand m14 and mini m14 shoot about 3moa at 100 yards(i shoot ar10 and bolt action and sks,that all i know)

First, you won't want to discuss the Mini M14 and full size M1A's / M14's in the same conversation. LOL the Mini isn't very well regarded here.

How is it a good shooter? I built it that way. As far as M14's / M1A's go, Bula is one of the better ones and I believe the only source for a forged receiver. Other brands have sourced from Bula. For my build I bought their forged M14 receiver plus a National Match barrel and matching bolt. Bula had a 4th of July sale several years ago which made this build pretty affordable. I bought from a NESer a vintage USGI stock that had been restored by LRB, another high end builder. Mix of stuff for the rest. It just barely makes weight for CMP competitions and I always hold my breath a little during weigh in.

I have torn down and restored / accurized several M1 Garands plus learned a lot from those with much more experience. With at least a halfway decent barrel I can get very good accuracy (relative to the platform) of M1's / M1A's but can't take credit for anything other than applying what I learned from others. M1A's / M14's are a more difficult than a M1 and of course both are more difficult than 'building' an AR, which is really 'assembling' when it comes to AR's.

 

[dcmdon]

Yes. BUT… They’re United States Marines. I was comparing 1770ies farmers and craftsmen to today’s desk jockeys and cubicle monkeys, not to professional warriors with a reputation of being some of the best infantrymen on the planet.

Those farmers and craftsmen were definitely not weighed down with a heavy ruck like today's Marines are.

That pace is a piece of cake if you are light.

What does a Marine's ruck weigh typically? 50 to 70 lbs??

Those minute men traveled light, depending on the locals in the towns they traveled through for much support. I would't be surprised if their gear, including rifle was under 25 lbs.

 

[dcmdon]

The minutemen did, yes. But they were a small, select subset of the militia. Younger and fitter. They also were required to have all their gear ready to grab to fight for a couple days. They didn’t bring a sustainment load with them, just a short term combat load. They were designed to be ready on a moment’s notice, but only fight long enough for the other militia to arrive.

And logistics are a piece of cake when the populace supports you.

 

[teamRR]

When we talk about ARs and the downside of optics/batteries and such, versus AKs - let's not forget in a very original form ARs are iron sighted as well.

This one is really quite nice - light (without an optic or much extra anything), handy, reliable, accurate, rugged etc

 

[tuna]

Am I the only one who's SHTF scenario doesn't read like a Mack Bolan novel?

I'll take my .243 handi rifle hands down. It may not get me all the way through a Mad Max gunfight, but at least I won't die tired from larping all day.

 

[Broc Tuah]

Am I the only one who's SHTF scenario doesn't read like a Mack Bolan novel?

I'll take my .243 handi rifle hands down. It may not get me all the way through a Mad Max gunfight, but at least I won't die tired from larping all day.

I am rethinking my SHTF loadout to just a knife and a handgun.

Half these idiots will either die due to lack of meds, die or be incapacitated from a heart attack trying to carry 90lbs (because "45 years ago I did it in the Military"), or shoot themselves by accidnet trying to load all their junk they never practice with.

I will just walk around and pick up a rifle and a few mags.