Ultimate SHTF rifle???

LakeTrout said:
i don’t think I’m going to be doing it under fire in the dark, no. I think it’s really unrealistic to be replacing a BCG or bolt while under fire.

30 seconds is quicker than I can do it not having practiced. I can do it in 50 seconds including dropping the firing pin and fumbling around a bit. That’s 50 more seconds than swapping the full BCG, which I think is unrealistic when getting shot at, anyway. So for me, I wouldn’t keep a spare carrier. But I think a spare bolt is good to have around.
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Gotta make sure those gas rings are spaced properly too lol
 
LakeTrout said:
i don’t think I’m going to be doing it under fire in the dark, no. I think it’s really unrealistic to be replacing a BCG or bolt while under fire.

30 seconds is quicker than I can do it not having practiced. I can do it in 50 seconds including dropping the firing pin and fumbling around a bit. That’s 50 more seconds than swapping the full BCG, which I think is unrealistic when getting shot at, anyway. So for me, I wouldn’t keep a spare carrier. But I think a spare bolt is good to have around.
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I’ve cursed a cotter pin more than once on a bench trying to put it back in with lights, time and what little patience I have.

I’d rather have a second rifle than rebuild a BCG lol
 
chris_1001 said:
You can disassemble and reassemble a BCG in 30 seconds under fire in the dark??? Damn!
Click to expand...

Just tried with lights on, cold, no practice. 43 seconds from starting to pop the takedown pin to pushing the takedown pin back in. But that’s with the spare bolt in hand.

Probably a good 13 seconds worth of fumbling with the charging handle not seating correctly when reinserting the BCG. I didn’t realize I pulled it back enough to come out of its track.

I would definitely not be able to be faster doing that during an engagement. I’d never try. That’s a task to do back at home, at your car, camp, or patrol base. Wherever your “sustainment” gear is for your situation.

Edit: retried, not cold, and got 30.3 seconds in the light. Had to use my knife to pop the cotter pin that time.
 
chris_1001 said:
I’ve cursed a cotter pin more than once on a bench trying to put it back in with lights, time and what little patience I have.

I’d rather have a second rifle than rebuild a BCG lol
Click to expand...

I don’t blame you. But just to clarify I’m not saying I’m rebuilding a bolt. I’m just talking about replacing a bolt with another fully assembled bolt, in a carrier.
 
DarkJoker33 said:
^^^^this

Bolt
Click to expand...
Do you really think disassembling a bcg, then rebuilding it is the best solution under the circumstances we talk about above?

I’ve seen ar’s go down due to issues in low stress competitions. Never saw a rebuild.

It ends up two ways, borrow/have a spare BCG or borrow/have a spare AR
 
Last edited:
PappyM3 said:
Just tried with lights on, cold, no practice. 43 seconds from starting to pop the takedown pin to pushing the takedown pin back in. But that’s with the spare bolt in hand.

Probably a good 13 seconds worth of fumbling with the charging handle not seating correctly when reinserting the BCG. I didn’t realize I pulled it back enough to come out of its track.

I would definitely not be able to be faster doing that during an engagement. I’d never try. That’s a task to do back at home, at your car, camp, or patrol base. Wherever your “sustainment” gear is for your situation.

Edit: retried, not cold, and got 30.3 seconds in the light. Had to use my knife to pop the cotter pin that time.
Click to expand...

Does that include removing it from the rifle and grabbing the parts from a zip lock bag or was the bolt on a mat with the parts pre staged?

Not being a dick, but let’s just admit, none of this is under perfect circumstances

I’ll take a spare BCG over a bolt and loose parts 100 out of 100 times
 
chris_1001 said:
Does that include removing it from the rifle and grabbing the parts from a zip lock bag or was the bolt on a mat with the parts pre staged?
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Can’t speak for him but from my perspective, You’ve got the same time penalties for both. And then you just add the extra 50 seconds to swap the bolt. If you’re replacing the BCG, you’ve got to pop the take down pin, remove the BCG, get the new BCG from wherever you’ve got it, etc. what I’m saying is it’s an extra 50 seconds in addition to that to swap the bolt in the same carrier, vs. swapping the entire BCG.

Not sure what the entire time would take in whatever situation you’re in.
 
For the ultimate preparedness (you never know what you'll need) I carry these in my kit-

images


boss_before.jpg


And this is the bare minimum. Any of you doing less are doing it wrong and going to die.

[devil]
 
LakeTrout said:
Can’t speak for him but from my perspective, You’ve got the same time penalties for both. And then you just add the extra 50 seconds to swap the bolt. If you’re replacing the BCG, you’ve got to pop the take down pin, remove the BCG, get the new BCG from wherever you’ve got it, etc. what I’m saying is it’s an extra 50 seconds in addition to that to swap the bolt in the same carrier, vs. swapping the entire BCG.

Not sure what the entire time would take in whatever situation you’re in.
Click to expand...
Just saying it’s WAY f***ing faster to replace the whole BCG vs ANY other option.

Change my mind…
 
chris_1001 said:
Do you really think disassembling a bcg, then rebuilding it is the best solution under the circumstances we talk about above?

I’ve seen ar’s go down due to issues in low stress competitions. Never saw a rebuild.

It ends up two ways, borrow/have a spare BCG or borrow/have a spare AR
Click to expand...
There's almost nothing to taking down a piston bcg setup. And the bolt is kinda the only vulnerable thing.
There's not gas key to break or come loose.
The bolt isn't controlled by gas rings.
So it's a drop in and out affair
 
Mountain said:
For the ultimate preparedness (you never know what you'll need) I carry these in my kit-

images


boss_before.jpg


And this is the bare minimum. Any of you doing less are doing it wrong and going to die.
Click to expand...

I seriously hope that’s not all you’re planning on carrying with you. You also need a reloading press in case you run out of ammo during a firefight and all you have is your empty brass and the incoming bullets.
 
DarkJoker33 said:
There's almost nothing to taking down a piston bcg setup. And the bolt is kinda the only vulnerable thing.
There's not gas key to break or come loose.
The bolt isn't controlled by gas rings.
So it's a drop in and out affair
Click to expand...
Sigh.

Sure. Go ahead and rebuild your gun.

I was thinking we are found DI guns. But sure. Let’s do piston
 
chris_1001 said:
Sigh.

Sure. Go ahead and rebuild your gun.

I was thinking we are found DI guns. But sure. Let’s do piston
Click to expand...
The whole conversation started out as a piston gun items to have. Not DI.
You'd seriously have to do something way out of whack to replace a carrier group and a piston rod.
Replacing a bolt isn't rebuilding a gun
 
chris_1001 said:
When people are shooting at you (this is a shtf senirio)

50 seconds is death X 50
Click to expand...

Well, I don’t think of SHTF scenarios as being solely in the middle of a gun fight.

But either way, in a fight, I’m not planning on swapping a BCG or a bolt. And I wouldn’t carry either in a combat loadout. My priority if the bolt goes down is GTFO if at all possible. If not, I’m probably dead trying to replace either the BCG or bolt in a middle of a gun fight.
 
DarkJoker33 said:
The whole conversation started out as a piston gun items to have. Not DI.
You'd seriously have to do something way out of whack to replace a carrier group and a piston rod.
Replacing a bolt isn't rebuilding a gun
Click to expand...

Carry a DI gun and a few spare parts.

Chances are you will find lots of spare parts, mags, ammo etc. carry common stuff (Glock, M&P, AR’s)
 
DarkJoker33 said:
Again replacing 1 part is not rebuilding.
Just like replacing a bcg isn't rebuiilding
Click to expand...
Are you really going to swap a firing pin under duress in <60 seconds?

No.

Swap the whole thing.

You know, I’m arguing with people who want to argue… that’s cool.

If it’s a real shtf senario, I’m happy knowing I’m not going to play that game and I’ll just replace it all and return fire.
 
chris_1001 said:
Carry a DI gun and a few spare parts.

Chances are you will find lots of spare parts, mags, ammo etc. carry common stuff (Glock, M&P, AR’s)
Click to expand...
Don't want too, don't need to.
My go to small frame AR 5.56 or my 6.5 Grendel is piston.
Next to no cleaning,heat stays up front and doesn't travel back under prolonged firing.
If I'm lucky enough 1 day to suppress them the gas stay up front too.
Built them as piston setups for that reason.
 

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