RK1717
NES Member
Are those mirrors on the ceiling? For seeing into the hoppers?Finished product.[/URL][/IMG]
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What did you do in the reloading room recently?
- Thread starter DW357
- Start date
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I'm going to show this to the wife and tell her this is happening in the basement next year.lFinished product.[/URL][/IMG]
That is a genius idea! Once I put a ceiling up...
It comes in handy!
I tried that...it didn't fly. I'm still relegated to my half of the garage...could be worse I suppose.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
dcmdon
NES Member
Jesus man. What HAVEN'T you thought of?
To those of you didn't notice the black pipe going to the 650 on the left, that appears to be a vacuum line to suck up chips from the case trimmer. Insane.
You are a sick sick genius. And I mean that in a most complementary way.
Don
Thanks man. I did the central vac for the trimmer. It's on a remote switch. The vac is in the next room. It's nice not hearing it run when trimming.
Finally had a good bunch of wolf gold .223 cases and some federal .223 cases that needed to be tumbled. After tumbling I lubed a few to get my Hornady die setup for resizing. I used the Hornady comparator tool to get an idea of how much I'm pushing the shoulder back. There was a big difference between the wolf and federal brass (granted the federal cases I picked up from a guy shooting his Ruger AR556, not from my AR. The wolf cases were fired from my AR). I could consistency bump the shoulders back by 0.003" on the wolf cases but when I sized a federal case, it bumped the shoulders by 0.009" which is WAY too much of course.
I'm also dreading the trimming process as I originally thought about getting a giraud but the trim lengths will be all over the place unless I sort by headstamp which seems like a bit much? I did notice that none of the wolf cases were longer than 1.754" while the federal cases were no longer than 1.745" after resizing. So I may not need to trim on the first go around.
Do you guys actually sort .223 brass by headstamp in order to trim consistently? I understand that with precision long range loads you want consistency but I'm only shooting 120 yards with 55 gr Hornady FMJs... Got some H335 coming in the mail tomorrow actually. Figured I'd buy the cheapest powder and bullets for shooting 120 yards.
I think for now, I'll settle for the Lee cutter and lock stud chucked into my cordless drill. Also tried out reaming primer pockets for the first time. I just used the pocket reamer from my lyman case prep tool and chucked it into my drill and it seemed to work very well (I tested by seating primers before and after reaming to confirm ease of seating).
I'm also dreading the trimming process as I originally thought about getting a giraud but the trim lengths will be all over the place unless I sort by headstamp which seems like a bit much? I did notice that none of the wolf cases were longer than 1.754" while the federal cases were no longer than 1.745" after resizing. So I may not need to trim on the first go around.
Do you guys actually sort .223 brass by headstamp in order to trim consistently? I understand that with precision long range loads you want consistency but I'm only shooting 120 yards with 55 gr Hornady FMJs... Got some H335 coming in the mail tomorrow actually. Figured I'd buy the cheapest powder and bullets for shooting 120 yards.
I think for now, I'll settle for the Lee cutter and lock stud chucked into my cordless drill. Also tried out reaming primer pockets for the first time. I just used the pocket reamer from my lyman case prep tool and chucked it into my drill and it seemed to work very well (I tested by seating primers before and after reaming to confirm ease of seating).
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Just got all my components sorted and shelved since we moved in. (I know, it took too long!) The brass tumbler is running as I type. Yes, I brought all my unloaded brass with me! I need to buy a new table and get my presses set up.
Really odd down here. There are paid indoor ranges but no "clubs." Fortunately every Tuesday night is "Ladies night" where ladies get free range time. I haven't been there on Tuesday night yet but plan on it becoming a regular habit.
Really odd down here. There are paid indoor ranges but no "clubs." Fortunately every Tuesday night is "Ladies night" where ladies get free range time. I haven't been there on Tuesday night yet but plan on it becoming a regular habit.
For my precision stuff, I sort, for the stuff I use for run and gun practice, combat accuracy is fine for me and I don't sort that stuff, I do trim it, but that's just because I figure with the time it would take to measure them all to make sure they're not too long, I might as well just trim them, otherwise I wouldn't even do that. My "combat accurate" stuff is typically about 3 moa, but that's out of a gun I don't clean very often, running xtreme 55gr bullets.
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The only time I sort the cases is for the primer pocket swager, I sort by web thickness ... It's a PITA but I only have to do it once.
dcmdon
NES Member
If you trim with a Giraud AFTER you full length resize, then the shoulder is in the same place on all the pieces and trim length is very consistent.
For all my precision long range stuff, I have about 300 pieces of winchester I traded for. I originally got 500 pieces, but weighed each piece and kept those that were grouped closest together.
The oterh 200 go in my AR and with SMK 168s are as accurate a federal GMM
My other precision brass is abunch of Hornady match brass that I picked up at a Sig rifle class. Once fired and all from the same lot number .
Everything else, including all of my .223, I dont' weigh. The whole purpose of using the same lot or head stamp is to get consistent capacity which leads to consistent MV. On my precision stuff, I had a SD of 6 fps. Good enough.
All the other stuff I shoot a max of 300 yards, at which a slight variation in MV makes no difference.
I ran some numbers on a 175 SMK running at about 2700 fps. A 30 fps difference in MV resulted in something like a .05 difference in impact height at 100 yards and a 16 inch difference at 1000 yards.
Don
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What is this "sorting" brass you speak of? Hell, I don't even sort out the steel cases for .223 I just reload them. I'm using a Giraud and there's no issue trimming mixed batches unless you are just being a control freak. I have no problem making sub MOA ammo with mixed batch brass (including leaving steel in) if you're using a commercial powder and half decent heads.
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This.
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dcmdon
NES Member
The Giraud indexes on the shoulder. If the shoulder is in a different place on different pieces of brass, then the trim length can vary pretty wildly.
Like I said, other than my bolt gun brass, I've never sorted brass. Including all my .223.
wet tumble
full length resize / decap
trim with giraud
reload
I don't worry about clean primer pockets on most rifle stuff so I don't tumble after trimming.
Don
Like I said, other than my bolt gun brass, I've never sorted brass. Including all my .223.
wet tumble
full length resize / decap
trim with giraud
reload
I don't worry about clean primer pockets on most rifle stuff so I don't tumble after trimming.
Don
But I tried that and the wolf and federal cases were much different from each other after sizing (when using the Hornady headspace comparator). So if the headspace is different, then the trim lengths will be different since the Giraud measures from the shoulder. But if I sort brass by headstamp I could adjust the Giraud for each headstamp. This is the same issue I ran into with 30-06. All PPU cases resized the same but HXP resized differently than PPU. Obviously the brass properties varies by manufacturer of course.
dcmdon
NES Member
Andrew,
Ok. so everything you say makes perfect sense except that the cases were different after sizing. That doesnt make sense. I'm not saying it isn't true. I just don't understand why.
All I can come up with is that some brass is more elastic than others and may spring back more. But I'm really grasping at straws.
Ok. so everything you say makes perfect sense except that the cases were different after sizing. That doesnt make sense. I'm not saying it isn't true. I just don't understand why.
All I can come up with is that some brass is more elastic than others and may spring back more. But I'm really grasping at straws.
Yeah it does seem odd. I agree, I think it has to do with the elasticity of certain brass. Currently I only have about 50 pieces of federal brass, the rest is wolf gold so it's not the end of the world to sort them out and adjust the die accordingly.
I should find some lake city brass as that seems to be well liked among .223 reloaders.
(emphasis added)
There's a commercial remanufacturer, sold at Dicks stores, in bulk pack blue and white boxes. Their .223 is almost ALL LC with the side benefit of having the .mil crimp already machined off. I've shot two boxes (600rds IIRC???) just to harvest the brass.
Good to know thanks! Is that the ultramax stuff?
I believe so. When I bought it, I asked to open the box and check headstamps... I pulled out about 20 from all over the box and 19 were LC (LC 12, LC 13, and LC 09 IIRC.)
The source is likely .mil or LEO ranges, so the stuff that was mixed in was Federal Cartridge.
Having shot both boxes I expect that they are 90% or more LC of recent vintage.
Obviously YMMV, I'm sure a major remanufacturer will have multiple sources. Check headstamps before you buy!
My question is, why does case length matter to you? I trim a case once to 1.740 the first time and never trim it again, and I've shot range pickup cases as short at 1.725.
The case length just isn't that important, and for that matter neither is the shoulder location beyond it being in spec.
If you want to make HP ammo for competition and mentally you want to nail down every variable, I get it. But other than that the length and shoulder distance aren't going to mean much towards crafting 1 MOA ammo (assuming your barrel is sub MOA capable). Keep in mind military ammo (like commercial XM193) is spec'd at 4 MOA grouping. You're going to blow that out of the water with reloads.
I'm just trying to say you need to pick a group size that's good for you and then only take the time needed to make that happen. I hear a lot of people wasting A LOT of time chasing variables that just aren't going to change anything when shooting at the range because most people are not MOA shooters.
The case length just isn't that important, and for that matter neither is the shoulder location beyond it being in spec.
If you want to make HP ammo for competition and mentally you want to nail down every variable, I get it. But other than that the length and shoulder distance aren't going to mean much towards crafting 1 MOA ammo (assuming your barrel is sub MOA capable). Keep in mind military ammo (like commercial XM193) is spec'd at 4 MOA grouping. You're going to blow that out of the water with reloads.
I'm just trying to say you need to pick a group size that's good for you and then only take the time needed to make that happen. I hear a lot of people wasting A LOT of time chasing variables that just aren't going to change anything when shooting at the range because most people are not MOA shooters.
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Question for those chugging the blue kool aid:
Do you use the stock powder measure for precision reloads or is there a better alternative?
Do you use the stock powder measure for precision reloads or is there a better alternative?
I just wanted to make sure I don't blow up the gun or myself
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
I guess I don't know enough about reloading rifle to know what's overkill and what's normal/safe regarding brass prep. I just follow the loading manuals but I may be overthinking this as I do with many things...
I noticed the federal cases were actually below the trim to length so those may not need any trimming in the next few reloads. The wolf cases were right in the middle at 1.755". Anyway thanks for the info guys!
I'm working up some loads to hopefully shoot tomorrow.
I made 10 rounds using 24 gr of H335, 24.5 gr H335, and 25 gr H335 all using Hornady 55 gr FMJBTs @ 2.205". Running me about 19 cents per round - not bad. Only shooting 120 yards so I figured cheap is good
These are being shot from my first AR build that has a 16" 1/8 wylde upper.
I made 10 rounds using 24 gr of H335, 24.5 gr H335, and 25 gr H335 all using Hornady 55 gr FMJBTs @ 2.205". Running me about 19 cents per round - not bad. Only shooting 120 yards so I figured cheap is good
These are being shot from my first AR build that has a 16" 1/8 wylde upper.
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Make sure you check out the OCW method.
https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/278036-OCW-revisited?highlight=OCW
I usually pick a load I think the velocity I'm looking for is, then load that one, 3 steps below it in 0.4gr and 3 steps about in 0.4gr. So 7 loads of 5 bullets each and group them at 100 yards. Look for the groups that have the same POI. Sometimes you'll have to go even higher to confirm if you're not seeing pressure signs.
https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/278036-OCW-revisited?highlight=OCW
I usually pick a load I think the velocity I'm looking for is, then load that one, 3 steps below it in 0.4gr and 3 steps about in 0.4gr. So 7 loads of 5 bullets each and group them at 100 yards. Look for the groups that have the same POI. Sometimes you'll have to go even higher to confirm if you're not seeing pressure signs.
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I use the stock Dillon powder measure even with Varget. I run 24gr for our match rounds of .223. Ive weighed a bunch of powder charges and they are close enough. I'm not a good enough shot to be able to tell the difference in
.1 gr.
You shouldn't see a variation that's measurable with +/-0.1 gr. If you're using OCW, you should even be good +/-0.3gr.
I'll check it out thanks. The OAL in the Hornady manual for their 55 FMJs seams short but as mac1911 mentioned to me, the bullets are short and fat compared to other 55s. I did make some dummy rounds as long as 2.22" and they seem to chamber okay as far as I could tell. But used the length in the Hornady manual (2.20")
dcmdon
NES Member
I don't load precision ammo on my Dillon. By precision, I mean .308 intended for bolt gun use.
I do load my .223 match ammo on it. But again, that is 200 yards max.
Also, my .223 powder, Ramshot Tac meters VERY well. Within .1 gr. Which is all my scale can discern.
