What did you do in the reloading room recently?

[pastera]

Cartridge?
Pics?

This
Don't just shorten and increase crimp.

If your cases aren't expanded correctly it's easy for the bullet to tilt while being seated - if it's bad you can see the bullet expanding the case more on one side than the other. This will cause a round to sometimes plunk when the eccentric part falls into a groove and jam if it hits a land.
You can shorten your way around the issue but the right fix is to seat as concentric as possible and not create problems.

 

[240Geezer]

Cartridge?
Pics?

Left to right.
Remington factory 1.095-1.105 COL
Reload @ setting for Berrys plated. 1.110-1.120 COL
At that setting the cast bullet seems to fat and long getting stuck in the chamber AND not allowing the slide to go into battery.

 

[240Geezer]

The last two on the right are reset to 1.060-1.070.
The furthest to th right has been crimped tighter.

 

[jek]

Spent the last couple of hours separating range pickups of .380, 9mm, .40, .38 spl, .357 mag, .45 acp (large and small primers). I think I'm going brass blind. I don't shoot .380 or .40, so when I gather more I will likely karma it or swap for something I do shoot.

 

[DW357]

Left to right.
Remington factory 1.095-1.105 COL
Reload @ setting for Berrys plated. 1.110-1.120 COL
At that setting the cast bullet seems to fat and long getting stuck in the chamber AND not allowing the slide to go into battery.

It’s possible the bullet profile/o give (whatever it’s called) is too fat and is jamming up in the throat of the barrel?
Run into this with CZ barrels and certain bullet profiles. The solution is to shorten the overall length of the round or get the barrel reamed

 

[pastera]

The last two on the right are reset to 1.060-1.070.
The furthest to th right has been crimped tighter.

Can you post the full data on those?
Bullet manufacturer (or mold) and weight
Load data that you got the COAL from

You can't use the same COAL for a specific cast bullet if you powder coat the bullet. Powder coat adds significant size to the entire bullet. Even though sizing brings the diameter back to stock, the nose profile is extended both diameter and length.

Also, the nose on that cast bullet looks like a 1R design - those fat noses don't do well in guns with short throats (CZ, M&P). If you need to push back the COAL then back the powder off at least 0.2gn from max (better to start at min).

As far as crimping, don't over crimp a 9mm. That's asking for serious issues with over pressure. If over crimping solved the plunk problem then you solved a concentricity issue by squeezing the shit out of it in the taper crimp. Make sure you are expanding enough and that your seating stem actually fits the nose properly. Also, always seat and taper crimp in two steps.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Can you post the full data on those?
Bullet manufacturer (or mold) and weight
Load data that you got the COAL from

You can't use the same COAL for a specific cast bullet if you powder coat the bullet. Powder coat adds significant size to the entire bullet. Even though sizing brings the diameter back to stock, the nose profile is extended both diameter and length.

Also, the nose on that cast bullet looks like a 1R design - those fat noses don't do well in guns with short throats (CZ, M&P). If you need to push back the COAL then back the powder off at least 0.2gn from max (better to start at min).

As far as crimping, don't over crimp a 9mm. That's asking for serious issues with over pressure. If over crimping solved the plunk problem then you solved a concentricity issue by squeezing the shit out of it in the taper crimp. Make sure you are expanding enough and that your seating stem actually fits the nose properly. Also, always seat and taper crimp in two steps.

What he said.
Can you get closer pics of the bullet side by side with a factory FMJ. It does look a little short and fat like a Lee bullet.

 

[240Geezer]

It is indeed a Lee bullet.
The COL I use is a compromise from several sources.
The factory ammo with FMJ bullets all seem to have a uniform profile. Then there's Berrys which are similar but again a fatter profile.
The Lee mold is supposed to drop at 124 grn but is closer to 129.
The powder coat seemed to add about .001 diameter to a .356 bullet. I did not resize.
Just reseting and crimping tighter allowed a 10 round sample to chamber in two different guns with no issues.
I'm not loaded to max pressure now so not going to pull down 250 rnds to drop .2 grn.
I'll see if I can get better pics.

 

[p..]

My last 18 Sierra #8350 170g round nose FMJ. I loaded 15, and kept 3 for reference.

13.3g 2400, CCI 400 small rifle. These should be good for 1200 fps.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

It is indeed a Lee bullet.
The COL I use is a compromise from several sources.
The factory ammo with FMJ bullets all seem to have a uniform profile. Then there's Berrys which are similar but again a fatter profile.
The Lee mold is supposed to drop at 124 grn but is closer to 129.
The powder coat seemed to add about .001 diameter to a .356 bullet. I did not resize.
Just reseting and crimping tighter allowed a 10 round sample to chamber in two different guns with no issues.
I'm not loaded to max pressure now so not going to pull down 250 rnds to drop .2 grn.
I'll see if I can get better pics.

Ok if you made some test round and crimped more. Take a couple of them and pull the bullets. Did you crimp too much and undersize the bullets? This can cause more issue that will get you going around in circles.

If you’re local we can meet up and you can have some of my new favorite 9mm mould which works beautifully in tight throated guns.

Also I can toss you a sample of hi-tek so you can throw that powder stuff in the trash

 

[240Geezer]

L to R
Remington
Berrys plated
Lee plain cast
Lee powder coated
Reset recrimped.

 

[whacko]

We all have a natural pulse , watch your front sight, your groups are so close in pattern I will say its you
If you have good focus on the front sight you will see your pulse.
Your groups are vertical vs all over , watch your hold dont take to long getting off a shot.
Try a little line of white hold.
You should be able to pick up any drift up into the black

Your groups to me anyway are not bad , you just have 2 different groups , even your 2 center shots are close in pattern so your doing something consistent ,

Is that the correct target ?

So if I see the pulse.....how do I use that to or react to it to get tighter groups.

 

[240Geezer]

Ok if you made some test round and crimped more. Take a couple of them and pull the bullets. Did you crimp too much and undersize the bullets? This can cause more issue that will get you going around in circles.

If you’re local we can meet up and you can have some of my new favorite 9mm mould which works beautifully in tight throated guns.

Also I can toss you a sample of hi-tek so you can throw that powder stuff in the trash

View attachment 708956

Thanks Mike. Pretty sure I can work through this. I got a bit over enthusiastic loading those all without doing a test batch.
Obviously my bad.
I decided I'm not doing Hi tek.
Powder coat worked fine before it came along and I don't really want to add 6 extra steps.
I do love that penta HP tho.
Who's mold is that?
Another trip to the range and try these, maybe tomorrow afternoon.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Thanks Mike. Pretty sure I can work through this. I got a bit over enthusiastic loading those all without doing a test batch.
Obviously my bad.
I decided I'm not doing Hi tek.
Powder coat worked fine before it came along and I don't really want to add 6 extra steps.
I do love that penta HP tho.
Who's mold is that?
Another trip to the range and try these, maybe tomorrow afternoon.

You’re welcome

I’m going to be that guy right now. Hi-Tek has been around for something like 30 years. Powder coat started a decade ago.

Seriously though you should just try a little bit and see if you like the results. I did both and I really prefer hi-tek. I prefer to lube bullets when I can but this is cleaner for semi autos.

It’s an MP 359-125 I believe. I have the same style of nose profile in a 45-70 mould and in a 38/357 mould too. I think the member 45-2.1 designed the moulds.

 

[DW357]

My last 18 Sierra #8350 170g round nose FMJ. I loaded 15, and kept 3 for reference.

13.3g 2400, CCI 400 small rifle. These should be good for 1200 fps.

View attachment 708954

Nice. I came across some of those Sierra 170s a couple years ago. Forget how much 2400 I used but they were very pleasant to shoot. Way less recoil than my 158 gr loads

 

[p..]

Nice. I came across some of those Sierra 170s a couple years ago. Forget how much 2400 I used but they were very pleasant to shoot. Way less recoil than my 158 gr loads

Before I figured out an appropriate load for them, I had one test batch that was running about 1360fps, and wouldn't extract unless I slapped the extractor rod. That one was feisty.

Didn't do that again...

 

[akma]

We all have a natural pulse , watch your front sight, your groups are so close in pattern I will say its you
If you have good focus on the front sight you will see your pulse.
Your groups are vertical vs all over , watch your hold dont take to long getting off a shot.
Try a little line of white hold.
You should be able to pick up any drift up into the black

Your groups to me anyway are not bad , you just have 2 different groups , even your 2 center shots are close in pattern so your doing something consistent ,

Is that the correct target ?

Pistol greatness has always eluded me. I'm not a natural. So I tried a Strikeman and it has helped a lot on paper. Haven't made it to the range yet. There's a certain feeling you like riding a bike you acquire and once you get it, then you get it. I'm getting there. It's the repetition that develops that feeling. You can fire way more in your home than at the range for a lot less $$$. Did notice a different pistol requires technique.
As far as load accuracy goes how much can loads differ? Especially at 20 feet or 10-20 yards? Or you're not better than a particular load?

 

[whacko]

Pistol greatness has always eluded me. I'm not a natural. So I tried a Strikeman and it has helped a lot on paper. Haven't made it to the range yet. There's a certain feeling you like riding a bike you acquire and once you get it, then you get it. I'm getting there. It's the repetition that develops that feeling. You can fire way more in your home than at the range for a lot less $$$. Did notice a different pistol requires technique.
As far as load accuracy goes how much can loads differ? Especially at 20 feet or 10-20 yards? Or you're not better than a particular load?

At 50 feet the loads matter quite a bit. That's why we test different loads. The last batch of 38 wadcutters I made were all over the target. Changed a few things and now I'm getting them all in the black of an nra target at 50 feet. I'm looking to shrink that to the 9 and 10 ring only....I think that can be accomplished with more load testing. I've. Ive batches of 357 mag with heavy doses of unique powder that I can get all in the 9 and 10 ring (proof below)...now I'm trying to accomplish that grouping with 38 special.

 

[mac1911]

Can you post the full data on those?
Bullet manufacturer (or mold) and weight
Load data that you got the COAL from

You can't use the same COAL for a specific cast bullet if you powder coat the bullet. Powder coat adds significant size to the entire bullet. Even though sizing brings the diameter back to stock, the nose profile is extended both diameter and length.

Also, the nose on that cast bullet looks like a 1R design - those fat noses don't do well in guns with short throats (CZ, M&P). If you need to push back the COAL then back the powder off at least 0.2gn from max (better to start at min).

As far as crimping, don't over crimp a 9mm. That's asking for serious issues with over pressure. If over crimping solved the plunk problem then you solved a concentricity issue by squeezing the shit out of it in the taper crimp. Make sure you are expanding enough and that your seating stem actually fits the nose properly. Also, always seat and taper crimp in two steps.

Over taper crimp can also squish the bullet and the brass will spring back some, enough to possibly cause the bullet to “move” with in the case.

 

[mac1911]

So if I see the pulse.....how do I use that to or react to it to get tighter groups.

Timing.Breathing
Hard to put to words but
My hold is not solid rifle or pistol
My body pulse is like a omega sign
As the swing goes from high outside back down into the target I begin my trigger press as im coming down and will generally break as I come back up into the target.

 

[p..]

At 50 feet the loads matter quite a bit. That's why we test different loads. The last batch of 38 wadcutters I made were all over the target. Changed a few things and now I'm getting them all in the black of an nra target at 50 feet. I'm looking to shrink that to the 9 and 10 ring only....I think that can be accomplished with more load testing. I've. Ive batches of 357 mag with heavy doses of unique powder that I can get all in the 9 and 10 ring (proof below)...now I'm trying to accomplish that grouping with 38 special.


View attachment 709185

My most accurate 38 load is 3.8 grains of Titegroup with a 162g LSWC lubed with transmission assembly lube.

These guys:


Did this at 50 feet. The target is timed rapid fire, but I was definitely taking my time. I started getting a little flinchy near the end.

 

[76Too]

My most accurate 38 load is 3.8 grains of Titegroup with a 162g LSWC lubed with transmission assembly lube.

These guys:
View attachment 709314

Did this at 50 feet. The target is timed rapid fire, but I was definitely taking my time. I started getting a little flinchy near the end.
View attachment 709316

Assembler goo

I thought for sure this was a @mac1911 post until I scrolled back up.

Classic!

 

[50wt]

that target is pretty impressive for a snubby revolver.

 

[p..]

that target is pretty impressive for a snubby revolver.

I was as surprised as anybody.

At one time, I was thinking of sending it back to S&W because it didn't seem to shoot well. Turns out I just didn't know how to pull the trigger.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Assembler goo

I thought for sure this was a @mac1911 post until I scrolled back up.

Classic!

Same here! I actually checked expecting him.

 

[p..]

Same here! I actually checked expecting him.

One thing with that S&W, I ran 1000 SNS 158g LSWC through it when I first got it (I think those bullets are a little too hard for that gun, at least in how I use it), and I kept getting more leading on the right side of the frame than the left side of the frame. I was trying to figure out what was going on, and one of the tests I ran was to very slowly dry fire it while dragging my finger on the cylinder. I noticed the hammer would fall just before the cylinder locked up, and I thought that's what was going on. I thought it was lighting off the round before the chamber was actually lined up with the forcing cone. That's why I was going to send it back to S&W. I'm not sure that's actually a problem when the gun is being used normally as I suspect the inertia sends it into lockup before the bullet actually leaves the cylinder. Just a guess.

Then I measured the cylinder gap, using feeler gauges, and I saw the gap was a few thousandths greater on the right side than the left. I did not want to get all into trying to remove the barrel, run it back another thread, then timing the front sight and cutting the forcing cone... too much. So I just stoned the back of the forcing cone to get the same gap on the left side as the right.

It also had an Apex duty/carry kit in it when I got it, but I would occasionally get light primer strikes, so I yanked out the aftermarket hammer and return springs and put stock S&W springs in it. The only Apex parts I left in there were the firing pin and firing pin return spring. It is the full-on 12 pound trigger.

It's a strange little gun. It's really hard to shoot well, but once you can shoot one of those (lots and lots of dry firing helped me), everything else seems kind of easy in comparison.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Mine was a POS when I got it. I don’t push for any accuracy but I needed two fingers to pull the trigger.
Once I tuned that all up she shoots great.

 

[p..]

Mine was a POS when I got it. I don’t push for any accuracy but I needed two fingers to pull the trigger.
Once I tuned that all up she shoots great.

My impression is that they like fast powder, and slightly oversize, well lubed soft bullets. Those 162 grainers, I think they were as cast, not sized.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

My impression is that they like fast powder, and slightly oversize, well lubed soft bullets. Those 162 grainers, I think they were as cast, not sized.

Makes sense. No barrel to burn up the slower powders so you would get inconsistencies.
Low velocity so you need soft to bump up and seal up.

I should shoot some wadcutters in mine and see what they do.

 

[p..]

Makes sense. No barrel to burn up the slower powders so you would get inconsistencies.
Low velocity so you need soft to bump up and seal up.

I should shoot some wadcutters in mine and see what they do.

The SNS 158g, I recovered several of those from the sand berm, and it looked to me like they were riding on the lands, and never actually touched the grooves.