You are all over complicating this.
Grab a beer, sit down and watch some Erik Cortina videos.
Grab a beer, sit down and watch some Erik Cortina videos.
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What is your "Long Range" Rifle Platform?
- Thread starter Rockrivr1
- Start date
i don't say any of this is too complicated. just gets a bit time consuming, sometimes.
as of eric - no one truly objects with what he says - combustion, harmonics, ballistics, if i recall well, it is what he preaches. all there.
i had plenty of samples on 6.5CM with extremely low ES in single digits on groups of 5 and those groups were still not anywhere close enough. the trick is to bring those several partially co-dependent parameters together into an optimal combination, plus a whole concept of dealing with necks tension. he seems to ignore it most of the time.
but, he also tends to deal with upscale guns only and upscale components where it just can be way less of the factor. like my 308 gun that gave me quite a fight to deal with. and still half way there.
He also seats his bullets at the range.
I remember watching a video, he takes this thing thst looks like a press (sorry, forgot the name) and seats them there.
That could save you a lot of time rather than preparing several seating depths.
PS - I know the struggle, BPCR is worse.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
one of cooler videos i saw was some grandpa baking precision rounds in his own basement, and having a 100yds range line right there next to his reloading station, he literally rolled in his chair to the firing lane.He also seats his bullets at the range.
I remember watching a video, he takes this thing thst looks like a press (sorry, forgot the name) and seats them there.
That could save you a lot of time rather than preparing several seating depths.
PS - I know the struggle, BPCR is worse.
for me it is not a struggle, it is all fun. plus, i am still rusty enough and need practice, making and having plenty of rounds to shoot helps.
Tallahassee
NES Member
Never heard of her.
Rockrivr1
NES Member
Great for you guys for the time and effort you put into getting your ammo just right for your gun. I admire the dedication to get it right. Me on the other hand, well, I absolutely HATED reloading. Had a Dillon 550B with several caliber conversion modules for handgun and rifle. Problem was, I just didn't enjoy it. Probably the only one who's ever said that. Sold the entire setup when Covid started and got more for it then I put in, so there's that.
Now I do it the old fashioned way. I buy pre-made ammo.
Though I do find the process and "weeds" very interesting. Just know it's not for me.
Now I do it the old fashioned way. I buy pre-made ammo.
Though I do find the process and "weeds" very interesting. Just know it's not for me.
Tallahassee
NES Member
Just googled him. Two things came up. The first made me lose all interest. The second was more interesting than the first.
1. He is a F class shooter. Pfft.
2. What do you call someone that lives in a barn. Interesting.
He has really good YouTube videos.
Those that like to make everything very complicated tend to not like him.
You can pay companies to do the load development for you, it is not too expensive. When you consider buying 2 to 3 powders, different bullets, all the work into getting the brass right, all the range trips ... it is not bad.Great for you guys for the time and effort you put into getting your ammo just right for your gun. I admire the dedication to get it right. Me on the other hand, well, I absolutely HATED reloading. Had a Dillon 550B with several caliber conversion modules for handgun and rifle. Problem was, I just didn't enjoy it. Probably the only one who's ever said that. Sold the entire setup when Covid started and got more for it then I put in, so there's that.
Now I do it the old fashioned way. I buy pre-made ammo.
View attachment 624006
Though I do find the process and "weeds" very interesting. Just know it's not for me.
Reloading rifle can also be a pain. I dont have to do as much work as some that reload for smokeless, but the thought of having to reload 100 BP loads just annoys me.
... so I do it in steps. Saturday I cleaned them, last night I primed all the cases, tomorrow I will lube some bullets, the day after I will reload a bunch.you should have tried a 750XL.
dunno, it is a personal thing, some like it, some don`t. after i got now 8 toolheads and worked out the process separating brass prep tasks - it got to be way easier.
the only annoying part of the process now is weighting of the powder drops, when i care for it to be exactly 0.1gr accurate. if i run a batch it is all setup now to be 0.3gr accurate, typically a 0.2gr accurate, but some may get to 0.3gr deviation. all that took some time to tinker with stuff, but now, as everything just works
- it is not an issue. and i only reload rifle, 9mm pistols now price wise are just not reasonable while 1k brass ammo can still be had for a $260 something. plus all the steel reserves.
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AHM
NES Member
How'd it get way over the moon?nope, it is indeed very much not.
Spherical cow - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Repelatron rays?
Tallahassee
NES Member
I have a very boring job. I will check them out tomorrow.
I usually try to go as fast as I can with the best group I can get at 300 yards, and just go from there. So, I'm definitely not a complicated reloader.
She’s in vacuum, to skip on gas turbulence computations.How'd it get way over the moon?
Repelatron rays?
Where I used to go to university- we called it a “spherical horse in vacuum”. Here it looks like it’s a cow. Same idea, though.
I hate reloading, but it's a necessary evil. I dump EVERYTHING on my Dillon 650. My last string of 20 shots at 600 yards had a SD of 17.4 (that velocity is measured at 600 yards; not the muzzle). My score sucked, but it wasn't because of the ammo.
Tallahassee
NES Member
I can honestly say, that I have never blamed my ammo when I shot like shit.
And I wouldn't say that sucked by the way.
50wt
NES Member
Thats what i get with cheap factory ammo. Id love to spend my time chasing a .5 moa target , but in all reality, 1moa is good for 90% of the games out there.
cathouse01
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That’s one advantage I have in being a pretty piss poor shot. Any gun that can shoot 1 MOA or better will be much more accurate than I am. And I do mean accurate and not precise. In the absence of wind, given a good stable benchrest rifle with well tuned ammo, even I can be pretty precise (meaning getting a good group, but not necessarily on target). Unlimited benchrest shooting is more about the science of rifle design and ammo development than the skill of the shooter. Just look at an unlimited benchrest rail gun:
ELR shooting is much more dependent on the individual shooter. I think accurate ELR shooting (meaning hitting the target and not just small groups) is very much dependent on a happy marriage of shooter, gun and ammo and each one of these components is unique. Take two examples of any one of these components and there will be some difference between them. That’s why it’s import to develop your load for your rifle. It’s reasonable that a shooter should want to develop their own particular load for their own particular gun, since that is what is going to determine their success or failure.
IMHO, there are two overriding skills that a good ELR shooter must have (and that I lack). Extremely consistent and stable trigger pull and the ability to “read” the wind. Most other variables can be accounted for with proper load development and sophisticated ballistic calculators. You can get ballistic calculator apps for your phone that even include the Coriolis effect (the difference in the rotational speed between the shooter and the target due to the rotation of the earth and their being on two different points). A good ballistic calculator combined with a high end Kestrel can give you an almost complete firing solution. What it can’t do is tell you what the wind is doing a kilometer away, or at any point along that 1000 meter trajectory. Being able to “read the wind” is as much an art as a skill and can only be learned through practice.
Of course the best equipment in the world, with the most consistent ammo, can’t help you if you jerk the trigger.
ELR shooting is much more dependent on the individual shooter. I think accurate ELR shooting (meaning hitting the target and not just small groups) is very much dependent on a happy marriage of shooter, gun and ammo and each one of these components is unique. Take two examples of any one of these components and there will be some difference between them. That’s why it’s import to develop your load for your rifle. It’s reasonable that a shooter should want to develop their own particular load for their own particular gun, since that is what is going to determine their success or failure.
IMHO, there are two overriding skills that a good ELR shooter must have (and that I lack). Extremely consistent and stable trigger pull and the ability to “read” the wind. Most other variables can be accounted for with proper load development and sophisticated ballistic calculators. You can get ballistic calculator apps for your phone that even include the Coriolis effect (the difference in the rotational speed between the shooter and the target due to the rotation of the earth and their being on two different points). A good ballistic calculator combined with a high end Kestrel can give you an almost complete firing solution. What it can’t do is tell you what the wind is doing a kilometer away, or at any point along that 1000 meter trajectory. Being able to “read the wind” is as much an art as a skill and can only be learned through practice.
Of course the best equipment in the world, with the most consistent ammo, can’t help you if you jerk the trigger.
NHCraigT
NES Member
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Savage axis 7mm-08 with after market adjustable rifle basix trigger installed.
$315 + $79
Simmons Whitetail Classic Rifle Scope 6 5-20x50 (the older very good model before they got bought out). Midway close out deal $110
Simmons Whitetail Classic Rifle Scope 6.5-20x 50mm Adjustable
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Custom 10 round magazines: $95 each
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View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=71Ax11UXYOg
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Hawken
Tallahassee
NES Member
Thanks, I really enjoyed this video. I usually don't agree with a lot of the videos that I watched, but this was good. As far as Berger bullets, 100% agree. They handle jump fantastic, better than anything else out there. Not to mention the wind, excellent. Best reloading video so far. Way better than that long winded shill ultimate what's his face.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VEMZJYovMA
so, i did shoot that ladder today, barrel finally sped up, and it shows. last groups went up to 2954fps, with no good results at 300, even if 100 groups looked ok.
next time i will drop load even more to see how will that work out.
so far the 31.3gr with 1.735 - a 0.065" from lands seems to work fine. its 300 results were weird, but it could have been me. or not. will see next time.
will see how lower speeds will show up.
the circle on top is a 1/2" in diameter, i did not bother doing a group size computation in , it is obvious enough.
next time i will drop load even more to see how will that work out.
so far the 31.3gr with 1.735 - a 0.065" from lands seems to work fine. its 300 results were weird, but it could have been me. or not. will see next time.
will see how lower speeds will show up.
the circle on top is a 1/2" in diameter, i did not bother doing a group size computation in , it is obvious enough.
Top, middle group of 3, group A looks really good.
I am surprised it is opening so much at 300.
Was it windy?
Could it be the shooter?
I think you're overthinking it. You're in a node there around 2870 @1.735. The 300yd group is still like .6moa and the space between the grouping translates to about a tenth of a mil @ 300. Could have easily been shooter error or some wind.
I'd stick in that area or bump the powder charge to 32gr to push it over 3k into the next node.
test was botched by mag feeding issues. the seating depth was definitely wrong as i had mag hiccups - repeating it now at home it shows that even minor contact of 6 dasher with chamber moves bullet off its seating position - damn neck is too small and gentle. pressing necks more with 264 shim does not help. i think it was the reason of damn fliers in those shots as i tried to use MDT mag and had sometimes those stuck feed. should have taken calipers with me. pity.
i am overthinking it, i want to see how good it can get. i agree about the node - as when barrel was fresh it seemed to be same speed where it behaved the best.
the magazines are the problem. MDT magazine does not feed well at all, round presses bullet into the chamber as lips seem to be short. the other mag i sorta fixed - its follower sometimes gets stuck still, but less often, and feed does not result in bullet going sideways, but next time i will hand feed it all.
it looks like this rifle will not be shooting from magazines anymore. pity, but, no biggie. i can get a side holder for rounds, MPA has it.
i am not perfect, so, can be a lot of things. practice makes it perfect, will see next time.
this rifle is very difficult to shoot bad, it is like shooting a .22lr. so, will see.
Are the MDT mags the 6BR mags? What are you running for neck tension?
Mudflap621
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When the round jams is it overshooting the chamber and hitting high or is it low? If it’s going in high than gently close the front of the feed lips obviously opposite of jamming low. It’ll run from mags just need to find what it likes.
Best way to tune mags is to make up 10 dummy rounds obviously no primer or powder. Load mags and run that bitch like a raped ape. See where it’s jamming and also pay attention to if it’s a certain point in the mag like 7th or 8th round as spring pressure can change and put different pressure on the rounds.
Best way to tune mags is to make up 10 dummy rounds obviously no primer or powder. Load mags and run that bitch like a raped ape. See where it’s jamming and also pay attention to if it’s a certain point in the mag like 7th or 8th round as spring pressure can change and put different pressure on the rounds.
slipknot
NES Member
That's what i did
Then I got a couple Primal Rights BR kits and put them in my Accurate mags and all is well. The only mag that gives me trouble is the MDT even after replacing the old parts with their upgraded parts which did help some.
Paul, 31.3 looks like a good place to concentrate. Be sure of your brass prep and try again. Load to the kerrnal, feed one at a time like benchrest and shoot consistent. Maybe try some 31.2. You'll do fine
Quite_Exasperated
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Scoped the inside of my barrel today…
yeah - i was just doing it. no good.
the feed from supplied mag is not getting stuck - but there is a contact on a side and bullet shifts for a 0.010-0.015" when bolt pushes it in. bergers sit very soft.
neck pressure is 0.002/3 - the bushing is 265, measured neck after bullet seated is 268/269, out of the bushing measures 266-265.5-265. usually closer to 266.
i have a 264 bushing, as well, but it does not help anything - it is the shape of the berger 105. once it expands the neck and slides down - it is soft.
i have also hornady 105 - that one sits way firmer.
MDT mag is just useless. round sits sideways the bullet pressing into lower edge of barrel, not getting in. what a bitch, it was like a $90 shipped.
here is MDT feed. if i slam bolt real fast - it goes in, but with bergers - ruins the seating. a normal speed smooth bolt move ends like this, below.
