What is your "Long Range" Rifle Platform?

paul73 said:
yep, it is the plan. i loaded new set in 30.2gr to 31.4gr in 0.2gr increments with 1.735 seating, and also 31.2 and 31.4 in 1.730 - and will run that hand fed. screw those mags. it is a waste of time to tune them, it seems to me.
now it is a question when will the damn rain stop and when i will have time to get to the range again. i like my chrono, but, it is not rain compatible.
may be i need to get a barrel mounted one, but i kinda hate the design, plus, not sure what is the point to do precision rounds harmonics test with some crap hanging on the barrel.
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How do you do harmonics tests? Do you have a barrel tuner?
 
paul73 said:
no, do not want a tuner.
a lack of correlation between 100 and 300 groups is enough to see it. like that group 7 at 2929fps, i had a very similar stuff with 6.5cm, where at 100 it would be really tight, but 300 spread was into almost 8 inches. there are many ways to skin a cat, i look at it from a practical perspective only, of how to get a load that works for me in my situation.

the deal, again, is not about theories and mathematics, but just a fact that if you`ll hang whatever on a barrel - you will change how it behaves without that weight.
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So, there are only so many powder loads, seating depth and bullet weights you can try.

If after trying those you still get that discrepancy, and don't want a tuner (I don't know how much these actually help) what do you do next?

I agree on not hanging anything from the barrel.
 
Remember that there are several weather factors that also play a part, aside from the wind. Humidity, Pressure, & Temp all affect multiple aspects of your shooting from neck tension to powder burn & bbl harmonics.

Not enough to notice each at 100y but as you push out, they become more noticeable.

Make sure you are comparing apples to apples.
 

Keep conducting those uncontrolled "experiments".

Oh look! 7 "flyers".
redbead.jpg

Seems to me as if swamp gas from a weather balloon
must have been trapped in a thermal pocket
and reflected the light from Venus into the muzzle crown.
 
so, it is rather interesting.
as barrel speed up, the 2860-2870fps load went to a 30.8gr, which was expected.
what was not expected - the 0.005" more of a seating depth dropped ES/SD rather dramatically down - 4/2 - not too bad.
at 100 last group of 5 was odd, 3 went into same hole, and other 2 decided to string down, rather low.
300 results got same weird - with 3 shots to group perfectly, and 2 went way to the right.

i guess i will need to retry now only 30.8 and that 31.4 in 1.730" seating. and probably will try 1.725" as well.
30.8 300yds flier to the right was me setting windage on scope with a click to the right instead of click to the left, where rest of group went, so, it is a good group.
i wanna get there ES4 SD 2 as well. :)

IMG-1361.jpg
 
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30.8 looks like the ticket to me. A lot less vertical in it too that’s good. Funny that’s the exact load and speed I’m running in my BRA but I’m .030 off. I bet if you stick with that and get used to the rifle you’ll be pretty happy.

What supports you using, bipod rear bag?
 
paul73 said:
so, it is rather interesting.
as barrel speed up, the 2860-2870fps load went to a 30.8gr, which was expected.
what was not expected - the 0.005" more of a seating depth dropped ES/SD rather dramatically down - 4/2 - not too bad.
at 100 last group of 5 was odd, 3 went into same hole, and other 2 decided to string down, rather low.
300 results got same weird - with 3 shots to group perfectly, and 2 went way to the right.

i guess i will need to retry now only 30.8 and that 31.4 in 1.730" seating. and probably will try 1.725" as well.
30.8 300yds flier to the right was me setting windage on scope with a click to the right instead of click to the left, where rest of group went, so, it is a good group.
i wanna get there ES4 SD 2 as well. :)

View attachment 625082
Click to expand...

Just a question. I’m enjoying following your search for the best accuracy, but with a 1500-2000 rounds count before barrel drop off, how deep are you in on that count? Plus when you have to swap barrels will you need to start this from scratch again?
 
Rockrivr1 said:
Just a question. I’m enjoying following your search for the best accuracy, but with a 1500-2000 rounds count before barrel drop off, how deep are you in on that count? Plus when you have to swap barrels will you need to start this from scratch again?
Click to expand...
New barre new development but it should hopefully be somewhat close with same components. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t go at least 2k.
 
bigblue said:
Wind is the wild card at longer ranges.
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Wind is a son of a bitch. Reading it is my #1 problem. I’ve gotten better, but I still get caught up with lulls or gusts in the wind down-range. I need to work on identifying changes in the mirage.
 
bigblue said:
Wind is the wild card at longer ranges.
Click to expand...
Said it before and will say it again: Trigger control and reading the wind. Almost everything else (if you have the time) can be taken care of by a good range finder and a ballistics calculator app on your phone (assuming a good rifle and consistent ammo).
 
cathouse01 said:
Said it before and will say it again: Trigger control and reading the wind. Almost everything else (if you have the time) can be taken care of by a good range finder and a ballistics calculator app on your phone (assuming a good rifle and consistent ammo).
Click to expand...
I’d add pulse, control, timing and/or mitigation too. My pulse, depending on what I’m wearing, can add a full 1 MOA of diagonal stringing to my group size if I don’t time shots correctly.

But yeah, you can add spin drift and coriolis effect to your ballistic calculations easily. Unfortunately, the coriolis effect is dependent on your geographical coordinates and direction of fire. Not an issue for a known competition/range, but you can’t really account for it when printing/writing drops and drifts on your gun/buttstock. Still less than 1/4 MOA shift for most distances anyway though, so not a big deal even though it’s a bigger deal than I realized.
 
PappyM3 said:
I’d add pulse, control, timing and/or mitigation too. My pulse, depending on what I’m wearing, can add a full 1 MOA of diagonal stringing to my group size if I don’t time shots correctly.

But yeah, you can add spin drift and coriolis effect to your ballistic calculations easily. Unfortunately, the coriolis effect is dependent on your geographical coordinates and direction of fire. Not an issue for a known competition/range, but you can’t really account for it when printing/writing drops and drifts on your gun/buttstock. Still less than 1/4 MOA shift for most distances anyway though, so not a big deal even though it’s a bigger deal than I realized.
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Would you be willing to check my pulse? A throbbing pulse is the number one contributor to stringing.
 
I would lump recoil anticipation (“flinching”), breath control and timing the shot all under trigger control. Flinching is my biggest problem, and it is a completely learned response. That’s why a good trigger helps me more than anything else, since I can’t really anticipate the break and therefore the recoil. I unfortunately didn’t start out with a .22 LR. My first rifle was a 7x57 Mauser, not too bad from a recoil point of view, but back then we didn’t wear ear pro and the muzzle blast was enough to start a flinch. I next stupidly moved up to a light weight 300 Win Mag hunter (I was 15 at the time and back then the 300 was consider “the” big game rifle, though what big game I intended to hunt escapes me). That thing, with no break and no ear pro was a real flinch inducer. I’ve been suffering from that mistake ever since. Once you learn to flinch, you’ll do it no matter what you're shooting, even a .22 LR, until you specifically “unlearn” it. And even then you can drop back into your old habits if you’re not careful.
 
Shooting is extremely simple to do well:
Align the sights to the target. Then apply pressure to the trigger until it goes off, without disturbing that sight alignment.

It really IS that simple.

Reading wind/mirage, dicking around with handloads, worrying too much about bullet BC, etc. ALL OF IT takes a back seat to trigger control. You can have the most accurate rifle, the most accurate load, ballistic calculators, weather stations, and wind flags, but if you flinch the trigger when the sights are in the 8-ring; it's going to be an 8.
 
PatMcD said:
Shooting is extremely simple to do well:
Align the sights to the target. Then apply pressure to the trigger until it goes off, without disturbing that sight alignment.

It really IS that simple.

Reading wind/mirage, dicking around with handloads, worrying too much about bullet BC, etc. ALL OF IT takes a back seat to trigger control. You can have the most accurate rifle, the most accurate load, ballistic calculators, weather stations, and wind flags, but if you flinch the trigger when the sights are in the 8-ring; it's going to be an 8.
Click to expand...

And you know it too when you pull. The more you shoot the easier it is to call your shots in your head as you pull the trigger.
 
PatMcD said:
Shooting is extremely simple to do well:
Align the sights to the target. Then apply pressure to the trigger until it goes off, without disturbing that sight alignment.

It really IS that simple.
Click to expand...
Just like shooting pool. Really simple, actually. The tricky part is getting your body to do what it is supposed to. Your eyes tell your brain what they see, the brain tells your muscles and bones how to hold the stick and move forward. It takes many years of learning and relaxing and coordination to actually produce what your eyes told your brain you should produce. Then add in wind and external factors for shooting.

What I would like to know is what "long range" means to different people. To me, with a .22lr, "long range" is maybe 100 yards. With .223, iron sights, and my eyes, probably 180-200 yards. With 6mm or bigger, and a scope, probably 500 yards, but I've never had the opportunity.

As Einstein said, it's all relative.
 
PatMcD said:
Shooting is extremely simple to do well:
Align the sights to the target. Then apply pressure to the trigger until it goes off, without disturbing that sight alignment.

It really IS that simple.

Reading wind/mirage, dicking around with handloads, worrying too much about bullet BC, etc. ALL OF IT takes a back seat to trigger control. You can have the most accurate rifle, the most accurate load, ballistic calculators, weather stations, and wind flags, but if you flinch the trigger when the sights are in the 8-ring; it's going to be an 8.
Click to expand...

Trigger control is absolutely the base and foundation of all other shooting skills.

But it’s not just as simple as that. You can have the best trigger control in the world with a perfect sight picture right in the x-ring. But if you don’t read the wind and don’t dial on for that 10mph wind at 600, you’re going to be in the 6 ring.

But yeah, squeezing out the most in a hand load or constantly searching for the better BC bullet, those are severely diminishing returns.
 

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