CAESAR
NES Member
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Why GOAL supports H.4376? Have they lost it?
- Thread starter CAESAR
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CAESAR
NES Member
Yeh. Why didnt they include the net NON-GAIN for the gun owners. Such as providing full list of guns bought and sold in the 4 years since last license for renewal and the fact that Chief can just deny you on his own discretion?
I don't know how this MYTH got started, but it was never in any bill and is not in this bill
The whole thing about them requiring you to list all the guns you have upon renewal came from some poorly worded/thought out summary of the original H4121 bill (which was a cluster-F of epic proportions)
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yanici
NES Member
GOAL stated:
Please clarify this. I quickly perused the bill and I believe this freedom from taking the class only applies to current members of the armed services, not all veterans. Which is correct?
And EOPS might still issue regulations implementing the law in just that manner, but we'll see.
The summary points posted above seem like a lot of progress for Massachusetts. If this passes and someone with restrictions writes to the CoP to have them removed, will the CoP have to provide a reason? Or only on renewal?
i questioned goal from the minute they didnt "oppose" the original bills that were out there and was verbally attacked for it by fellow 2Aers on this site.
the official language of being "neutral" or "supporting" any bill that further restricts lawful owners is NOT OK!
not when its from ill informed people with nothing constructive to add who just like to shit on them for not yelling "shall not be infringed" over and over again at all the reps in the statehouse
.... because we all know that would work better
it's called lobbying, and a lot of people need to understand what that word means in this environment instead of pitting us against ourselves.
NES is a constant reminder of why gun owners in MA get trampled at every turn, most of them don't agree with eachother on anything. People that think constitutionally carry is the only way think you're an idiot if you want to open carry, people who shoot trap think you don't need AR-15's, it never ends
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this is inaccurate. GOAL opposed the bill when it should be opposed, and transitioned to being neutral/supportive as the bill was amended into an acceptable form.....this bill has undergone complete mutation from when it was revealed by Prince DeLeo, so GOAL has had to transition their stance as the bill has changed. What would you prefer? that GOAL just categorically oppose everything? that will ensure that even less folks on beacon hill hear our 2A concerns.
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^^this.
it is easy to ramble on about "God given rights" and the 2nd amendment from the liberty of a free state. While all of us agree on these concepts, the ears of Beacon Hill are deaf to such talk.....so yelling about "my 2nd amendment" rights will get nowhere in a hurry. Get's back to the whole "Massprudence" concept that a genius NESer conceived.....damn brilliant.
ntomsw
Banned
I don't have anything to add to the matter. I stated what I wanted to the OP.
I hope your post wasn't directed at me, because mien wasn't directed at you.
I was smart. I moved.
no not directed at anyone in this thread really, some guy on facebook pissed me off
I realize yours was a general comment, no worries, even if it was directed at me I can take it.
I'm not even a GOAL fanboy, I am just a realist about this
ntomsw
Banned
I was just letting the OP know how most GOAL threads go on this site. Just not sure why someone can't NOT like NRA, GOAL, or even Comm2A without getting blasted on here. I don't get it. People are free to hate or like them all they want. If you hate GAOL though, or disagree with them, watch out!
It's like religion, abortion, open carrying threads. All full of FAIL.
pretty much, we need an abortion thread and we can cover all of them in the last 24 hours (none as good as the NES hates muslims thread)
my response to GOAL's email which sums up how I said I felt on here as well:
Nope, my statement was accurate: as soon as goal stated they didn't "oppose" these bills, I questioned them.. still do..
Even tho its not as bad as it could have been, today is a LOSS for us. Could have been worse and Goal played a part in helping it not be, so I'm not "trashing" goal, just wondering why they should ask us to support further infringements...
historically speaking, the only way positive change has been effected is via carrot or stick.
carrot: GOAL working with beacon hill Dbags to help draft an acceptable (an inevitable) piece of legislation.
stick: everyone gets hanged, reference French revolution.
I'm not endorsing either method here, just pointing out that positive movements occur either via diplomacy or bloodshed....and I'm proud of NES and GOAL that we were able to flex some political muscle in this process and come out with a fine bill. nobody is getting genuinely screwed in this bill, despite what some may say....parts of it are stupid but what can we expect from Beacon Hill?
carrot: GOAL working with beacon hill Dbags to help draft an acceptable (an inevitable) piece of legislation.
stick: everyone gets hanged, reference French revolution.
I'm not endorsing either method here, just pointing out that positive movements occur either via diplomacy or bloodshed....and I'm proud of NES and GOAL that we were able to flex some political muscle in this process and come out with a fine bill. nobody is getting genuinely screwed in this bill, despite what some may say....parts of it are stupid but what can we expect from Beacon Hill?
CAESAR
NES Member
Horse shit
It doesn't look good when one organization (GOAL) puts out an email supporting a bill as substantial as this while the other (NRA) puts one out slamming it because of a specific part that is justified by the other and even given a reason why they deem it okay to be able to pass as is.
agree!
GOAL is publicly supporting a bill that the NRA opposes. It gives the anti 2A politicians the "we beat the NRA" headlines while GOAL can save face by not admitting defeat. (politics suck)
Palladin
NES Member
The NRA holds the Constitutional 2A position, nothing else is ok with them. Goal lobbied hard for the positives in this bill, worked with D's and R's. There are few negatives in it, even the FID burden is on the LEO to prove unsuitability.
The NRA has done zero for the gun owners of MA, and in fact, tried to take credit for the lobbying effects of Goal int he first go around!
The NRA has done zero for the gun owners of MA, and in fact, tried to take credit for the lobbying effects of Goal int he first go around!
you can't win if you don't play the game
unfortunately in this game, even if you are a spectator or don't even care about the game the outcome still effects you...
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I feel like you should do some research, you may still feel that way when you are done but there are a handful of extremely lengthy threads on here with lots of info for you about how the whole thing went down
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not true, they came in at the last minute and yelled "shall not be infringed!"
it obviously helped kill the bill...
/sarcasm
On the other hand you cannot expect two independent organizations to always agree upon everything.
xero2099
NES Member
considering the NRA left MA for dead along time ago I will still support GOAL
Valid points. But how do you propose we fix that? What more can we do? Everyone in MA who gave a rats ass about gun rights wrote, called, faxed, went to hearings and so forth. Bottom line: we did everything in our power to stop or change the bill. The ONLY ways to get change are through legislature or courts, and MA is as liberal as it gets so I'm not counting on having gun-friendly pols anytime soon.
It's reality down here. The voters put in office who they want, and the gun community is an EXTREME minority here.
I still support goal but heres my response to them. Hope it gets my point across:
Sorry but I can NOT SUPPORT this bill. Its disappointing that you are asking me to do so. I GREATLY appreciate GOALS efforts on the hill but this bill is an attack on the rights of lawful gun owners & does nothing significant to enhance public safety. I will NEVER support any bill that gives a public servant the ability to deny people of their constitutional rights. Nor should we support a bill that gives police officers exemptions to the restrictions placed on us commoners. Shame on you for asking me to support this piece of shit bill.
Sent from my iPhone
Sorry but I can NOT SUPPORT this bill. Its disappointing that you are asking me to do so. I GREATLY appreciate GOALS efforts on the hill but this bill is an attack on the rights of lawful gun owners & does nothing significant to enhance public safety. I will NEVER support any bill that gives a public servant the ability to deny people of their constitutional rights. Nor should we support a bill that gives police officers exemptions to the restrictions placed on us commoners. Shame on you for asking me to support this piece of shit bill.
Sent from my iPhone
Actually I've never known the NRA to hold the Constitutional 2A position. The 2A says shall not be infringed. The NRA has supported many infringements over the years.
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