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Winter Warrior 2020 - 2021 Postal Match for Iron Sight Military Rifles
- Thread starter Mountain
- Start date
Should be nice and cold for the 98k first run. Hope the creedmoor comes in , might as well test it with nice stuff. I have 20 rounds of PPU 762 NATO to dump through it and then I will start loading 125 SMK to see how they do and run those for a while
That Creedmoor .308 is pretty good stuff- as good as any SMK's, TMK', or Nosler CC's I have carefully loaded over Varget. That, the Creedmoor .30-06, and surplus GP11 are my favorite factory loads for match shooting. Damn, now I'll probably buy more just because...
Cold, dark, 30 degrees. Range to myself!
That’s ZQI with a higher score, though far larger group on the left. Wolf with a much tighter, though lower scoring group after making numerous adjustments.
I need the HK/PTR sight tool. The 400 yd. aperture got me close to on at 100.
All the random holes in the background are me “sighting” it in at 100 as this is really my first time out with it. I need to shoot prone more often as well.
All in all, a great way to break it in and a great way to spend inauguration morning.
That’s ZQI with a higher score, though far larger group on the left. Wolf with a much tighter, though lower scoring group after making numerous adjustments.
I need the HK/PTR sight tool. The 400 yd. aperture got me close to on at 100.
All the random holes in the background are me “sighting” it in at 100 as this is really my first time out with it. I need to shoot prone more often as well.
All in all, a great way to break it in and a great way to spend inauguration morning.
Rockrivr1
NES Member
You should have moved over to the 200 yrd range and really stretched her legs!
Heck yeah! Gotta get certified first
It’s definitely an accurate rifle by any standards. With a bipod and an LPVO (and the right ammo) I wouldn’t be surprised if it was close to MOA. Sub MOA? I dunno, it’s a battle rifle. Also, the Wolf ammo I was using was noticeably hotter than everything else I had. I played with the ZQI first and them “blam!” Freaking fireball! I know .308 is hotter than 7.62, but this was surprising (I’m new to the caliber). I stopped, checked the case (which was 40 feet to my 1:00) I don’t know what I was expecting to see? A split case? +P?? Xtra Xtra hot?!?!
It’s just Tula branded .308, out of a Wolf box. I’m accustomed to noticing the subtle difference between .223 and 5.56, this, I was not expecting. Sorry, I’m rambling. Hell of a lot of fun!!
That second group if centered would be an excellent score for a battle rifle.Heck yeah! Gotta get certified first
Also, the Wolf ammo I was using was noticeably hotter than everything else I had. I played with the ZQI first and them “blam!” Freaking fireball! I know .308 is hotter than 7.62, but this was surprising (I’m new to the caliber). I stopped, checked the case (which was 40 feet to my 1:00) I don’t know what I was expecting to see? A split case? +P?? Xtra Xtra hot?!?!
It’s just Tula branded .308, out of a Wolf box. I’m accustomed to noticing the subtle difference between .223 and 5.56, this, I was not expecting. Sorry, I’m rambling. Hell of a lot of fun!!
Does your ptr have those wonky rear sights?
Set screw for windage? Special tool for slotted nut to zero elevation. I watch my buddy bugger up his rear sight trying to wrestle with that inner pin nut .
I quite literally (and I hate the word) just got through buggering it up and modifying a cheap pair of scissors with a dremel/file to avoid paying $30 for some damn special tool (and a Phillips screwdriver) that should’ve come in the box!
Current status-
Bastards...
Stock sights are, serviceable? Certainly not a user friendly design.
I see an LPVO and red dot in my future.
If I can ever get it zeroed (and I do my part) it’ll stack ‘em on top of each other, to an extent. There’s 6 rounds in about an inch and a half in the top right of the smaller group, it’s just low and left...
That front sight post is basically the width of the 9 and 10 rings at 100 yards. I have a newfound respect for the BUIS I have on other builds. This was not an easy task.
That's an ideal width for iron sight match shooting. Easy to center on the black 'bull'.
I'm toying with the idea of building a CETME C or L, or perhaps a G3 / PTR build. Every time I see one posted it drives me a little closer, LOL.
i have had to modify almost all my front sights. They are as wide as the black of a SR1 on most.
I cant see the thinner sights well enough. i dont have a lot of time behind the HK style sights but I just use front sight as a globe sight when i shoot my friends rifle , I just center the black bull in the ring the best I can and shoot for group size.
That’s good advice.
Let’s be honest, most of these rifles are designed to shoot minute of man at 600 yards (meters
). From what I’ve seen in this thread and my experience this morning, I wouldn’t want to be within 1,000 yds. of anything posted and pictured. Well, the M1 carbine may not reach that far, but most everything else is accurate enough to be a deadly nuisance at that range and deadly deadly inside 800.
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Monday I shot my 1913 mauser 10 shots around 3-4 moa with iron sights and the sun in my face. Guy next to me looked at my rifle and my target when I was done and just said “how can that old thing with those lousy sights being that old still shoot”That’s good advice.
Let’s be honest, most of these rifles are designed to shoot minute of man at 600 yards (meters
I giggled and said with good ammo and better eyes I bet you could sneak under 2 moa
A lot of these old war horse bolt action rifles will shoot pretty damn close to MOA. Granted it's a National Match with whatever magic Springfield put into them back in the day, but a 1903 I have will shoot 1-1/8 to 1-1/4" groups at 100 yards if I do my part. Somewhere I have a photo or post of where at Granby I shot a sub 2" group at 200 yards with it, so below MOA with irons. In 11 years that rifle will be 100 years old. Now if I could only get my 1941 USMC sniper clone with a new Criterion barrel and 8X scope to behave like that. Swedish Mausers and Swiss K31's are crazy accurate right out of the box too. I think my Swede is close to or maybe over 100 years old?
D
Deleted member 67409
Heck yeah! Gotta get certified first
Also, the Wolf ammo I was using was noticeably hotter than everything else I had. I played with the ZQI first and them “blam!” Freaking fireball! I know .308 is hotter than 7.62, but this was surprising (I’m new to the caliber). I stopped, checked the case (which was 40 feet to my 1:00) I don’t know what I was expecting to see? A split case? +P?? Xtra Xtra hot?!?!
It’s just Tula branded .308, out of a Wolf box. I’m accustomed to noticing the subtle difference between .223 and 5.56, this, I was not expecting. Sorry, I’m rambling. Hell of a lot of fun!!
Fireballs aren't that concerning for a few reasons. I used to love getting them in 7.62x54r with surplus. I once had a massive fireball show with a x54r Vepr when RI GOP gubenatorial candidate Alan Fung was at my range at a meet and greet.
(1) Fireballs are more common in low light. Winter around here is obviously a time where there isn't much bright sunlight, so if you shoot around say before 8am or after 3pm, you're more likely to see fireballs. A grey, cloudy winter day is pretty low on sunlight, so there's a higher probability of seeing fireballs.
(2) If you have a shorter barrel, like say 20" or under with a .308/7.62N, you're more likely to see fireballs. A fireball is typically just the combination of unburnt powder that's being exposed to oxygen. Shorter barrels mean more unburnt powder. The industry test barrel length for .308 and 7.62 NATO is like 24", so the shorter the barrel, the more probable the fireballs.
(3) Fireballs are more common when the ammo is inconsistent. While ammo (specifically, powder) can degrade over time if stored for decades, usually in poor storage conditions, and thus become more inconsistent, inconsistent ammo is usually more attributable to just being sub-prime quality. Tulammo is especially inconsistent ammo and some guys just outright refuse to shoot it because of how inconsistent it is. I and most FAL shooters won't shoot Tula in our FALs because its inconsistencies plus steel cases can blow up FALs (not G3 clones, don't panic). I digress; inconsistent ammo causes fireballs because the consistency of ammo is calculated by the standard deviation of its velocity. Ammo velocity is a measure of essentially barrel length + powder burn rate. Poor quality powder + shorter barrel = fireball occasionally.
Now, with you being in Mass, you can't solve the issue by using a suppressor or flash suppressor. With it being a PTR, I don't know if you want to handload eventually because of how brutal those guns are with brass. So, except for just checking the fired cases for bulged or pierced primers or any (abnormal) wear on the case, enjoy the fireballs, especially in lower light conditions and with inconsistent ammo.
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Most true lefties(left eye dom) can shoot rightie also ,
Usually because (particular to older shooters) everything tends to be RH and everyone tries to teach you to shoot RH.
I grew up shooting LH and RH.
In the field with the shotgun I naturally handle the shotgun LH downing birds. At the range my elders would always try to get me on the right side.
KMM696
NES Member
Interesting - I almost wish it went that way with me, would have made transitioning to right side easier. Mom is left handed so it was just generally understood that I was left handed and was going to do things lefty. Instead of learning to shoot right handed I got to learn a bunch of coping mechanisms for right handed guns.
Gasgunner
NES Member
Finally made it to the range today. 25 degrees in Pembroke with the flag straight out. Nippy, to be sure.
I brought 3 rifles with me. They all have less than 100 rounds thru them and all have completely different sights.
I shot the FAL third and really only brought it because its in the same case as rifle number two. I shot this rifle at one CMP match with ho-hum results so I didn’t have high expectations today. Never mind that I was losing my trigger finger to the cold by gun #3. Took 10 shots to make sure I was on paper the next 10 produced the 87 in the picture. The rear peep is too big to consistently position the front sight in it. Rifle ran great, guy pulling the trigger....meh.
I brought 3 rifles with me. They all have less than 100 rounds thru them and all have completely different sights.
I shot the FAL third and really only brought it because its in the same case as rifle number two. I shot this rifle at one CMP match with ho-hum results so I didn’t have high expectations today. Never mind that I was losing my trigger finger to the cold by gun #3. Took 10 shots to make sure I was on paper the next 10 produced the 87 in the picture. The rear peep is too big to consistently position the front sight in it. Rifle ran great, guy pulling the trigger....meh.
Attachments
Gasgunner
NES Member
Rifle number 2 is is a demilled IDF Galil. It was far more consistent than the last time I shot it (test firing after assembly). The front post needs to be shaved down and it was shooting a little left, but the sights are far better than the FAL as the front has a full hood to center in the peep. The second target shot was the 91 in the picture.
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Gasgunner
NES Member
The last rifle is also my newest one. Rebuilt HK33 parts kit, converted to semi auto, which technically makes it an HK43. I really like HK battle rifles. Love the turret diopter rear (which I put on my CETME as well in place of the original). I probably would have been tighter at 200yd. At 100, I needed to use the first position on the turret which is open at the top. It took a little fiddling to decide where the correct hold on the front ring was. I shot 5 consecutive shots and then checked the spotting scope. The second 5 rounds produced the 4 shot group in the top of the 9 ring. If i can maintain that hold a little lower, it will be a phenomenal shooter. Another 91.
