3/27/23 Nashville School Shooting

[MAGA99]

It goes without saying that people are heartbroken for the families that were destroyed by this. Myself, I also feel that way for the family of the She/He shooter. They are royally "F"ed. I'm wondering if they are going to get charged like the other mass shooter family that was just charged as well. Though I get the impression that this particular family had no clue what was going on, which I guess makes it worse.

Time to sell the house and move. Doubt they'll be able to live in that community anymore.

f*** them. They ignored a huge problem and it resulted in lost lives. I give zero f***s about those commie pieces of shit.

 

[MAGA99]

Shooter dead, situation deescalated. Next step is to go to dead shooter's house and investigate. OK, sounds reasonable.

Do you think they knock on the door or try and get the parents to open the door. Nope, let's use a ram to smash the door and then for good measure we'll throw some flash grenades into the house. Not sure what they expected to find in the house as far as armed/active resistance but seems excessive to me.

I'm really getting sick of LEO blatantly destroying private property when not necessary and then hiding behind immunity laws to not pay for repairs to said property.

I’m OK with their tactics. The family was complicit.

 

[MAGA99]

I live and work in Nashville. Yesterday practically every conversation inside and outside the job was dominated by this event. The overwhelming mentality among about fifty I spoke to is heartbreak at the tragedy followed by pride at the LEO response.

Several friends serve on Metro PD, two of which responded to the scene. Couldn't say much due to ongoing investigation but they likewise were pleased with how their team responded. Still understated and professional -- primarily just pissed that it was necessary and lives lost, wishing they could have resolved it faster. One said, "I didn't know my car could drive that fast." Apparently those two who neutralized the threat are about as squared away as officers can get for tactics, policy, and relating to the public. Exactly who you want on the force.

Can we Venmo you some beer money for those men?

 

[AMV]

Ok

For my day job? I hope so since I work with classified information and equipment.
In my personal life - Yes, because I did security and children's ministries at my previous church
Actually everyone in my house has gone through CORIs for similar reasons and my wife is a Mass certified teacher (read my previous posts where I said that I took a serious hit to ensure my children's safe and effective education)


Agree - You are the only one trying to strawman the no training BS.
However, if my kids were in a situation where it was a one box a year FUD or an unarmed person who was there, I would choose the FUD that MIGHT cause harm but COULD stop the threat over the certain harm from defenselessness.

Why would we let untrained or unvetted people supervise children in the first place - again this is not part of the argument.


Why does a citizen need to be licensed? Please present the Textual support or Historical Tradition for such requirements.

I assume you live in MA. Everyone needs to be licensed, I do not agree with it, I am personally all for constitutional carry. But working with in the scope of the current law if you are licensed I am all for it entering a school. If you are not then you would be committing a crime carrying anywhere by the standard set today in this state.

The response about additional training, Cori checks and vetting those in schools was meant for picton he was the one that did not feel the need for anything more than a LTC as it would require additional steps and funding. My mistake, he is a teacher and I thought I was replying to him. Sorry


Hell… We check people out before they can join our gun club to make sure they can handle themselves with a firearm, Why wouldn’t you do that for a teacher with a gun? At the very least for insurance purposes and liability to the school.
If that is done I am all for those people to carry in schools.

 

[Amputee Marksman]

I’m OK with their tactics. The family was complicit.

So, you'll be OK when they decide you're complicit in some trumped up charges and destroy your house.

I am not defending the family but who gets to decide which house gets the door smashed and grenades tossed inside. Let's assume for a minute the shooter was the kid of some high ranking civil servant or a connected individual I bet the whole raid/search of the house would have been handled differently.

 

[Brewer]

When I say school-sponsored training is not always good, consider this ludicrous protocol.

Ps. Thanks for sharing your experiences on the ground.

What I've heard of the plan sounded pretty solid to me. They hired professionals to customize it about a year ago. Anyone identifying a fire or active shooter could pull any fire alarm. Everyone hearing the alarm would barricade and a designated person would immediately tell everyone in classrooms what the alarm is for. A fire station is nextdoor down a hill, so anyone who wasn't near a classroom would run there. It was because of that plan that a 9-year-old girl knew to pull the fire alarm when she recognized a shooter, which cost her life but saved the majority of others.

One LE friend said he spent the next hour shotgun-breaching doors to clear the building -- they couldn't get rooms open any other way. The rest of the details I was asked not to share due to ongoing investigation. But the rooms were apparently reasonable for barricading.

Having a substitute teacher not briefed on protocol and getting caught in the hall significantly changed the outcome. Someone else close to the situation also told me the school was trying to raise funds for an SRO but had not yet secured the position.

All told, I think they were doing well mitigating risk with what they had.

 

[MAGA99]

So, you'll be OK when they decide you're complicit in some trumped up charges and destroy your house.

I am not defending the family but who gets to decide which house gets the door smashed and grenades tossed inside. Let's assume for a minute the shooter was the kid of some high ranking civil servant or a connected individual I bet the whole raid/search of the house would have been handled differently.

Valid point.

 

[bigbravehog]

Arm up

 

[Brewer]

Ha, guess blatant threats of violence are still a no-go in the age of Elon. This is why we screenshot.

 

[pastera]

View attachment 737257

YeahWell, welcome to my world.

My entire life I was told, "Suck it up - it's NOT the humans' job to accommodate YOU, it's YOUR job to work with THEM."

My experience also
But I can say that adolescence for a neuro-diverse male is very lonely. Can only imagine how that disconnection from social bonds is for a woman.

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

Ha, guess blatant threats of violence are still a no-go in the age of Elon. This is why we screenshot.

View attachment 737267

Good riddance, that idiot was a total wack job.

 

[SpaceCritter]

Valid point.

Lest we forget, Middlebury VT ERPO'd a kid's UNCLE cuz the rugrat bragged to a friend that Unc has gunz that he could get to shoot up the school.

 

[timbo]

There's definitely more to this, hate for Christians and this victim hood mentality was the major motivation, but we're not seeing trans people shooting up churches every Sunday, so don't automatically brand every trans person as some mass killer in waiting.

yet....

 

[pastera]

Ok

I assume you live in MA. Everyone needs to be licensed, I do not agree with it, I am personally all for constitutional carry. But working with in the scope of the current law if you are licensed I am all for it entering a school. If you are not then you would be committing a crime carrying anywhere by the standard set today in this state.

But you still condone and support the states infringement by validating it in your speech.

The response about additional training, Cori checks and vetting those in schools was meant for picton he was the one that did not feel the need for anything more than a LTC as it would require additional steps and funding. My mistake, he is a teacher and I thought I was replying to him. Sorry

Both can be right - school can say that if you want to carry you must present evidence of training and skill on your own dime.
Might not get a whole lot of takers in the NE but flyover country would be fine with it.

Hell… We check people out before they can join our gun club to make sure they can handle themselves with a firearm, Why wouldn’t you do that for a teacher with a gun? At the very least for insurance purposes and liability to the school.
If that is done I am all for those people to carry in schools.

See my response to previous
If the State (Big S) didn't destroy firearms culture in this country by design then this wouldn't be an issue - kids used to be instructed on firearms safety and be allowed to bring arms to school in order to hunt and/or compete in school leagues.

 

[Grendizer138]

What I've heard of the plan sounded pretty solid to me. They hired professionals to customize it about a year ago. Anyone identifying a fire or active shooter could pull any fire alarm. Everyone hearing the alarm would barricade and a designated person would immediately tell everyone in classrooms what the alarm is for. A fire station is nextdoor down a hill, so anyone who wasn't near a classroom would run there. It was because of that plan that a 9-year-old girl knew to pull the fire alarm when she recognized a shooter, which cost her life but saved the majority of others.

One LE friend said he spent the next hour shotgun-breaching doors to clear the building -- they couldn't get rooms open any other way. The rest of the details I was asked not to share due to ongoing investigation. But the rooms were apparently reasonable for barricading.

Having a substitute teacher not briefed on protocol and getting caught in the hall significantly changed the outcome. Someone else close to the situation also told me the school was trying to raise funds for an SRO but had not yet secured the position.

All told, I think they were doing well mitigating risk with what they had.

Without reviewing the actual plan, there are multiple failures on face value. Reliance on a “designated person” is probably a single point of failure. As far as a single protocol for multiple emergency situations: consider Columbine where teachers instructed kids to hide under their desks because that was nuclear threat protocol. A fire alarm should mean fire; separate events should have separate distinguishable indicators - intercoms, etc.

Again, I’d have to know more to get an informed opinion, but there’s a reason your smoke alarm doesn’t mean “maybe fire…maybe intruder”

 

[SpaceCritter]

Without reviewing the actual plan, there are multiple failures on face value. Reliance on a “designated person” is probably a single point of failure. As far as a single protocol for multiple emergency situations: consider Columbine where teachers instructed kids to hide under their desks because that was nuclear threat protocol. A fire alarm should mean fire; separate events should have separate distinguishable indicators - intercoms, etc.

Again, I’d have to know more to get an informed opinion, but there’s a reason your smoke alarm doesn’t mean “maybe fire…maybe intruder”

Kinda like an error message that "informs" you: "There was an error."

 

[In God We Trust]

Where/ when did you hear this?

Annual active shooter training for years

 

[AMV]

But you still condone and support the states infringement by validating it in

I do not condone it or support it…. but I’d do abide by it so I do not lose my rites. How about you? Do you have a LTC. Do you just carry because it’s America. And Shall not be infringed

 

[MAGA99]

Lest we forget, Middlebury VT ERPO'd a kid's UNCLE cuz the rugrat bragged to a friend that Unc has gunz that he could get to shoot up the school.

I was unaware. Middlebury vt might as well be combridge, mass in a valley

 

[Admin]

I’m OK with their tactics. The family was complicit.

Did the shooter live at her parents house?

 

[pastera]

I do not condone it or support it…. but I’d do abide by it so I do not lose my rites. How about you? Do you have a LTC. Do you just carry because it’s America. And Shall not be infringed

I do have an LTC but I don't make statements that others need have one to be qualified to enjoy a fundamental right.
The language one uses frames and limits their world view and thinking

 

[Brewer]

Without reviewing the actual plan, there are multiple failures on face value. Reliance on a “designated person” is probably a single point of failure. As far as a single protocol for multiple emergency situations: consider Columbine where teachers instructed kids to hide under their desks because that was nuclear threat protocol. A fire alarm should mean fire; separate events should have separate distinguishable indicators - intercoms, etc.

Again, I’d have to know more to get an informed opinion, but there’s a reason your smoke alarm doesn’t mean “maybe fire…maybe intruder”

Agreed, not ideal. But neither is retrofitting your emergency response plan to also include an active shooter scenario. It's never perfect working with what you have. I was also only told the highlights and like to assume the professionals who helped write the plan also included multiple designated informers, an intercom, etc. Raising funds for an SRO suggests an ongoing improvement plan.

Our church is doing the same. We're unlikely to find the funds for level IV ceramic plates and quad nods but we'll work with what we have and continually improve.

 

[SpaceCritter]

I was unaware. Middlebury vt might as well be combridge, mass in a valley

View: https://youtu.be/7TQBtdnbSpw?t=114

 

[JoseyWales]

Do we know which optics the officer had on his AR? ACOG?

 

[Brewer]

Did the shooter live at her parents house?

Yes. Autistic, not independent.

Do we know which optics the officer had on his AR?

Vortex LPVO. Not very familiar with their models but relatively few have this skeletonized adjuster -- Razor HD Gen III?

 

[AMV]

The language one uses frames and limits their world view and thinking

Or the correct way to do things in current times…. But you can be the judge

 

[Picton]

Agreed, not ideal. But neither is retrofitting your emergency response plan to also include an active shooter scenario. It's never perfect working with what you have. I was also only told the highlights and like to assume the professionals who helped write the plan also included multiple designated informers, an intercom, etc. Raising funds for an SRO suggests at least ongoing improvements.

Our church is doing the same. Start somewhere and continually improve.

School shooter response has been a WIP for many years in a number of schools, and will probably stay that way: VERY few administrators possess a security mindset (though some are willing to learn), and most are not into situational awareness to avoid threats. They tend to be reactive thinkers.

It's gotten better over the past 20 years. When I first got into teaching, there was a shelter-in-place mindset and a daft series of "codes" to be said over the intercom to let us know what the threat was. Of course, there were always way too many codes and they made little sense, so nobody remembered them.

Then we went to doorstops. Then little colored signs to be hung on our doorknobs. Then ALICE.

Now we've got differentiated alarms (only two of them) and Run-Hide-Fight. There have been a lot of steps in between. Security plans need constant updating, and it's only recently that the need for that kind of flexibility has been widely recognized by administrators. As older ones have died off, the plans have gotten better. But training and drilling isn't always a high priority.

 

[pastera]

Good riddance, that idiot was a total wack job.

Problem is the insanity is now hidden and what is hidden is forgotten by today's useless public

 

[kevin9]

I wouldn't be.

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Shooter dead, situation deescalated. Next step is to go to dead shooter's house and investigate. OK, sounds reasonable.

Do you think they knock on the door or try and get the parents to open the door. Nope, let's use a ram to smash the door and then for good measure we'll throw some flash grenades into the house. Not sure what they expected to find in the house as far as armed/active resistance but seems excessive to me.

I'm really getting sick of LEO blatantly destroying private property when not necessary and then hiding behind immunity laws to not pay for repairs to said property.

Cite?

 

[pastera]

Or the correct way to do things in current times…. But you can be the judge

I didn't say to not get an LTC - I stated that if you accept that other MUST get one to satisfy some qualification in your view then you support and condone the infringement.
And that statement is true no matter how much you deny it...