Emergency Preamble to be signed Weds?

[FireMedic102]

Please help me understand your position.

Why would a lawful business avoid filling a niche with lawful transactions?

There are already out of state dealers who sell MA compliant rifles and shotguns. Why wouldn't they continue to do the same?

Because this creates a list for the MA AG office to harass the dealers. Even if there is no legal authority it’s still a headache for those dealers.

 

[not new guy]

First, they would need to give him a fair platform, they don't.

I agree entirely, but they at the end of the day they are giving him a platform to get a message across, I just think the message could be delivered more clearly and more passionately/forcefully.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Because this creates a list for the MA AG office to harass the dealers. Even if there is no legal authority it’s still a headache for those dealers.

I'm sure the NH AG, who is already suing MA, would love for her to interfere in protected interstate commerce in that way.

 

[FireMedic102]

I bought the rest of what I wanted yesterday, but I’m tempted to stop by the mill this afternoon since it’s on my way home from my side gig just to see the show.

 

[FireMedic102]

I'm sure the NH AG, who is already suing MA, would love for her to interfere in protected interstate commerce in that way.

Now we’re talking.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Yes, I'm spit-balling here. In many posts about these topics the comment about us having to wait for our day in court comes up a lot. What if we use the court system in a different way and file suit against Healey herself instead of her office? Do the same for the aholes that thought this up and brought it forth for consideration. Hit them in their wallets. Was doing a little digging and a suit stating Gross Misconduct or Negligence could be reasons for the suit. From that perspective it doesn't go against the 11th Amendment.

Probably all kinds of issue with going that route but as I said, just thinking out loud.

 

[btnh6668]

Grassroots and elections are pointless here, which is the point. Our only means of fighting is in court. What we need is awareness.

It's only pointless because people don't show up. The only way to change the courts is to elect your person. The only way to elect your person is to show up and vote. The liberals have no problem showing up to vote. Not understanding why supposed "patriots" won't do their part and show up.

 

[btnh6668]

I agree entirely, but they at the end of the day they are giving him a platform to get a message across, I just think the message could be delivered more clearly and more passionately/forcefully.

Have you heard Jim speak before? He is not a soft spoken introvert. What you are seeing is all they want you to see. They do 10 minute interviews and choose one quote.

 

[EMTDAD]

Our only means of fighting is in court.

well.. not the ONLY way.. but I don't think we're there yet.. or will ever get there..

 

[Drix]

It will be interesting to watch the reactions of all the normies as they stroll past the gun counters at BassPro and Cabela's and realize all of the long guns are missing from the back wall

Wait- the bill dumps shotguns, bolt action rifles, and lever actions? Because that's about all BPS has.

 

[Drix]

well.. not the ONLY way.. but I don't think we're there yet.. or will ever get there..

We'll never get there, nobody's starting a bugaloo over firearms, even the most vocal shitposters won't go that far.

 

[Realtor MA]

You're not a felon until a court convicts you of a felony.

I'll be very curious to see whether the Commonwealth ever lets that happen on this statute.

You're a criminal

 

[Grendizer138]

Please help me understand your position.

Why would a lawful business avoid filling a niche with lawful transactions?

There are already out of state dealers who sell MA compliant rifles and shotguns. Why wouldn't they continue to do the same?

The majority of NH dealers don’t think it’s worth their time now to understand MA laws, nevermind after this mess. I mean, I’ve had difficulty getting NH dealers to transfer pre-94 AKs to me.

Maybe this will create a niche market in NH once all the MA FFLs go out of business. One can only hope.

 

[pastera]

Was there a clause in this (I remember seeing it but can’t find it/may have been a dream) that an FID was valid under the terms it was originally issued so if you have a pre-8/1 FID and have semi-autos you have until renewal to get rid of them?

No, there is no clause - if you only have an FID and possess a semiauto rifle or shotgun without a permit to purchase for that firearm then you are in illegal possession the moment the preamble is signed. Maura: "f*** you, you FUD felon"

1193 (c) A firearm identification card shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, transfer, possess and carry rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity or semi-automatic, and the ammunition therefore. A firearm identification card shall not entitle a holder thereof to transfer, possess or carry any other firearm including any large capacity firearm, any large capacity or semiautomatic rifle or any large capacity or semiautomatic shotgun except under the direct supervision of a holder of a license to carry firearms at an incorporated shooting club or a licensed shooting range. Except as otherwise provided herein, a firearm identification card shall not be valid for the use, possession, ownership, transfer, purchase, sale, lease, rental or transportation of any large capacity firearm.

I believe you may be referring to this section

1569 ... Persons lawfully possessing a firearm identification card or license to carry firearms on August 1, 2024, shall be exempt from this section upon expiration of such card or license and when applying for renewal of such licensure as required under this chapter; provided, however, that persons possessing a firearms identification card or license to carry firearms prior to the implementation of live firearms trainings as required in this section shall also be exempt from such requirement.

This doesn't allow FID holder to possess previously possessed semiautomatic rifles or shotguns - However it does mean that FIDs issued after 8/1/24 are exempt from retraining until the new training is actually implemented

2454 SECTION 159. Sections 38 and 75 [74] shall take effect 18 months after the effective date of this act.

2411 SECTION 152: Notwithstanding any general or special law, rule or regulation to the contrary, the secretary of public safety and security or a designee shall study and report to the legislature on recommendations to ensure the effective implementation of live firearm training as required pursuant to section131P of chapter 140 of the General Laws. Said report shall include, but not be limited to, any recommendations to ensure that such training does not become cost prohibitive and that resources and facilities to conduct such training are adequate and reasonably available to individuals in all regions of the state. Prior to issuing such report and recommendations, the secretary, or designee, shall conduct not less than 2 public hearings in different regions of the state to solicit public input regarding the implementation of the live firearm training requirement. The report and any recommendations shall be filed with the clerk of the house of representatives, the clerk of the senate, the senate and house chairs of the joint committee on the judiciary and the senate and house chairs of the joint committee on public safety not later than 9 months from the effective date of this act.

It is clear that the date for requiring the new training and live fire is not the effective date of the bill.
If we look at section 152, the implementation cannot happen before there are two public hearing and a report filed (9 months)
If we look at section 159 as updated, the implementation of the training requirements is in 18 months.

So, no you will not be LEGALLY required to get a new training cert if you get your FID/LTC after 8/1 but before the 18 month effective training date.

 

[MAD Geary]

So does this mean if signed, those with pinned stock & brake can take them off, and bayo lugs get JB welded back on?

 

[not new guy]

It's only pointless because people don't show up. The only way to change the courts is to elect your person. The only way to elect your person is to show up and vote. The liberals have no problem showing up to vote. Not understanding why supposed "patriots" won't do their part and show up.

No, they're pointless because of the reality of our numbers in this state. It's really not even close.

 

[Love Machine]

So does this mean if signed, those with pinned stock & brake can take them off, and bayo lugs get JB welded back on?

Yes, it seems so.

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

Not even 11 AM EST and I’ve already tugged thrice in anticipation for the flipping. Anyone want a P80 build for $800? Too bad, now it’s gone up to $950

 

[GL2020]

I think if this preamble get signs today the suit should be filed immediately after. Think this falls under "arbitrary and capricious behavior by government". Maybe not arbitrary but certainly in direct response to a group as a response meant to limit their options. That's capricious to my mind

 

[pastera]

You know, after reading that WCVB article about this just now I think GOAL probably deserves some heat for not waving its arms frantically enough about this whole thing. Every single mention of GOAL and Jim that I've seen in a media piece about it goes like this:



Adds regulations? Should be concerned? WTF. Sound the f***ing alarm already. Wake people up. Pound the table. Yell about how this puts an entire industry out of business in MA, and makes felons out of thousands of law abiding citizens. Scream about how draconian it is. Grab headlines, give quotes that get people's attention. This is as bad as it gets and we literally have nothing left to lose. Not sure what it gets us in the end, but at least go down swinging and making them uncomfortable. If you're going to try to sway public opinion you first have to get the public's attention.

What the media writes and what Jim, or any other 2a advocate, says are two different things.
They hate you and they are compulsive liars - don't talk to cops, feds, or the media.

 

[pastera]

I think if this preamble get signs today the suit should be filed immediately after. Think this falls under "arbitrary and capricious behavior by government". Maybe not arbitrary but certainly in direct response to a group as a response meant to limit their options. That's capricious to my mind

Doing anything against the preamble is futile
We don't have standing because the Mass constitution places such a broad reasoning on emergency that anything qualifies as long as the governor says it is.

 

[JDL]

You'll know when they hear about it when they start whining that we didn't do enough to keep their rights safe.
But not until they turn in all of their semiauto shotguns.

Fudds will not beleave anyone of us if we tell them. They won't even beleave this even if they read it. They will only beleave if the president of there club tells them it is true.

 

[Markymk25]

Wait- the bill dumps shotguns, bolt action rifles, and lever actions? Because that's about all BPS has.

Until they’re added to the roster, yes.

 

[FrankNA]

I would though love to be a fly on the wall to see the look on some of these people’s faces when they go into any given store to buy the most basic of rifles or shotguns and get told no.

There's a lot of gun owners who are absolutely clueless regarding this BS. I've talked to several of my gun owning friends and they're like "what new law????"

 

[AJK129]

Fudds will not beleave anyone of us if we tell them. They won't even beleave this even if they read it. They will only beleave if the president of there club tells them it is true.

Everyone keeps saying this, but Ive never actually met anyone like that. Doesnt mean they dont exist

 

[pastera]

Grassroots and elections are pointless here, which is the point. Our only means of fighting is in court. What we need is awareness.

Awareness is immaterial in the court - that's why the judiciary is our only avenue of relief.

The average person in this country doesn't want to be aware of anything more than sportsball or reality shows.
Liberty is hard and scary - they like ignorant bliss so avoid liberty at all costs

 

[not new guy]

Sounds like the plan by the referendum organizers (CGW) is to forge ahead with putting this on the ballot anyway.

Healey Will Block Effort To Suspend Gun Law

Gov. Maura Healey plans Wednesday to immediately implement a sweeping gun reform law, in the process blocking opponents who appear to be on the verge of suspending the law for

www.statehousenews.com

Healey Will Block Effort To Suspend Gun Law​

Gov. Maura Healey plans Wednesday to immediately implement a sweeping gun reform law, in the process blocking opponents who appear to be on the verge of suspending the law for

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By Chris Lisinski
3 min. read
View original

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STATE HOUSE, BOSTON, OCT. 1, 2024.....Gov. Maura Healey plans Wednesday to immediately implement a sweeping gun reform law, in the process blocking opponents who appear to be on the verge of suspending the law for more than two years until voters get the final say.
A spokesperson for the governor said Healey will sign an emergency preamble for the law finalized this summer, allowing many provisions to take effect right away instead on Oct. 23, which is 90 days after the governor signed the law.
The move will put much of the law into place immediately and push off the table the temporary suspension that opponents were eyeing as they pursue a 2026 ballot question to repeal the wide-ranging measure.
"This gun safety law bans ghost guns, strengthens the Extreme Risk Protection Order statute to keep guns out of the hands of people who are a danger to themselves or others, and invests in violence prevention programs. It is important that these measures go into effect without delay," Healey said in a statement Tuesday.
Opponents led by several gun owners groups and Second Amendment supporters are pursuing a ballot question to repeal the law. The group, which dubbed itself The Civil Rights Coalition, criticized Healey's decision on Tuesday and alleged an immediate start to some of the restrictions, especially on so-called long guns, could put gun shops out of business.
"It's like telling Subaru they can no longer sell a Subaru Forester, the best-selling vehicle in their lineup. That's basically what the state is doing to these businesses: they're saying you can no longer sell one of the largest and most profitable segments of your business," said Toby Leary, a co-owner of Cape Gun Works in Hyannis and chair of the repeal coalition.
To put the referendum before voters in 2026, the campaign must file at least 37,287 signatures with local elections officials by Oct. 9. The state Constitution lays out a second, higher target for signature-gatherers -- 49,716 this time around -- that would pause the law from taking effect until the election where the question will appear.
But there's a catch: if the governor declares a law an emergency law, it cannot be suspended as part of a referendum campaign.
If they can make the ballot, the groups who see the 115-page law as an unconstitutional overreach will now have a slightly different task. Instead of convincing voters not to let the measure take effect, they will need to make the case to undo a law that by that point will have been in place for more than two years.
Leary said he does not expect the campaign to alter its approach.
"The message is the same: this is an unconstitutional bill from the start. It should have never been passed," he said.
Supporters tout the measure as a way to further strengthen the state's already-extensive gun laws, noting that Massachusetts has one of the lowest rates of firearms violence in the country.
Leary said Tuesday that volunteers have collected more than 65,000 signatures so far, and he expects as many as 95,000 by the time they need to submit the paperwork for verification with local elections officials next week.

Toby Leary (left), who is chairing The Civil Rights Coalition working to repeal a gun law Gov. Maura Healey signed in July, speaks with reporters outside the State House on Sept. 19, 2024.
Chris Lisinski/SHNS
"That's the only reason [Healey is] acting. Make no mistake about it," Leary said. "The only reason she's signing this as an emergency preamble is because they don't want this suspended."
The campaign collected the signatures with "100 percent volunteers," he said, adding that "not a single paid signature-gatherer was employed in this campaign."
Opponents have described the repeal campaign as one prong of several challenging the law, which reaches across firearm-related topics including new restrictions on ghost guns, expansion of the state's red-flag law and a prohibition on firearms in certain public spaces.
Some residents and the Gun Owners Action League also filed a federal lawsuit alleging that parts of the law changing licensing requirements for firearms identification cards and licenses to carry are unconstitutional.
Laws without emergency preambles typically take effect 90 days after passage. House and Senate Democrats did not attach an emergency preamble to the gun law, which Healey signed on July 25.

 

[pastera]

Yes, I'm spit-balling here. In many posts about these topics the comment about us having to wait for our day in court comes up a lot. What if we use the court system in a different way and file suit against Healey herself instead of her office? Do the same for the aholes that thought this up and brought it forth for consideration. Hit them in their wallets. Was doing a little digging and a suit stating Gross Misconduct or Negligence could be reasons for the suit. From that perspective it doesn't go against the 11th Amendment.

Probably all kinds of issue with going that route but as I said, just thinking out loud.

Immunity protects her and the legislature - you can't sue them personally for passing a law even if they knew that the law infringed on protected rights when they voted on it.

 

[not new guy]

Awareness is immaterial in the court - that's why the judiciary is our only avenue of relief.

The average person in this country doesn't want to be aware of anything more than sportsball or reality shows.
Liberty is hard and scary - they like ignorant bliss so avoid liberty at all costs

Right - I meant awareness for the gun owners out there who are currently unaware just how bad this law is, if they're even aware of it at all.

 

[GL2020]

Doing anything against the preamble is futile
We don't have standing because the Mass constitution places such a broad reasoning on emergency that anything qualifies as long as the governor says it is.

Has it ever been attempted or has everyone accepted that as fact?