Emergency Preamble to be signed Weds?

[Picton]

What is an "Emergency Preamble"?

It makes the law go hot immediately, instead of when the legislature said it would go hot.

We've been discussing it on various threads for several weeks. Do a search for "preamble" and I'm sure you'll get caught up.

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

This literally makes no sense it can’t be done that way because there’s already been a forum created to gather signatures state wide. I thought this was America?

 

[peterk123]

It makes the law go hot immediately, instead of when the legislature said it would go hot.

We've been discussing it on various threads for several weeks. Do a search for "preamble" and I'm sure you'll get caught up.

Yup. We gave her the idea. Nice job guys.

 

[BostonVI]

As predicted.

I'm so surprised to find out that this exercise was entirely a waste of time even though we knew this could happen literally from the beginning and we could have been focusing our efforts on fundraising to support pending litigation this entire time.

I appreciate the people that saw the petition as "doing something" because their hearts were in the right place in terms of wanting to do their part, but this was a clear eventuality from the very beginning.

As a group, gun owners in Massachusetts are far better off flying under the radar and simply raising money to support winning on the merits in court. Most groups that get what they want from government tend to do without anyone ever knowing who they are or what they do. We'll never win the PR war here.

 

[Picton]

I'm so surprised to find out that this exercise was entirely a waste of time even though we knew this could happen literally from the beginning and we could have been focusing our efforts on fundraising to support pending litigation this entire time.

For the umpteenth time: we can walk and chew gum simultaneously, you know.

Signing the petition took me literally five minutes. That same day I donated a bunch of green to my 2A orgs of choice; that took about five minutes, too. This was never an either-or.

We try things on multiple fronts because those fronts are available to us. We can handle doing more than one thing at a time.

 

[not new guy]

For the umpteenth time: we can walk and chew gum simultaneously, you know.

Signing the petition took me literally five minutes. That same day I donated a bunch of green to my 2A orgs of choice; that took about five minutes, too. This was never an either-or.

We try things on multiple fronts because those fronts are available to us. We can handle doing more than one thing at a time.

But - assuming she does sign - will the petition end up having been a waste of effort and resources that only got us -3 weeks of buying in the end? What good will have come of it? I guess maybe her preamble move will weigh in our favor somehow, in some future litigation, but short of that it’s tough to see a benefit to all of it.

 

[DarthRevan]

Getting this hot now allows the orgs to sue sooner.
Short term loss for a hopeful long term gain.
It’s a big gamble, but scotus is favorable currently so I want them to get it sooner than later.

 

[sig shooter]

This literally makes no sense it can’t be done that way because there’s already been a forum created to gather signatures state wide. I thought this was America?

This is Massachusetts. Big difference dude.

 

[Picton]

But - assuming she does sign - will the petition end up having been a waste of effort and resources that only got us -3 weeks of buying in the end? What good will have come of it?

Who knows?

I can't tell the future.

IANAL, but I think it's likely the petition fight at least makes her cynical "emergency" thingie obvious. Will that help us in court one day? I can't say, and neither can anyone else here.

We don't yet know what good (or ill) will come of it. But being uncertain about that? Doesn't mean it wasn't worth the effort, at all.

 

[LakeTrout]

She’s gonna do it. Then the next one she’s gonna f*** you even more. You think this is as bad as it gets? In a few years they’re gonna give you something even worse, and you’ll be wishing you could go back to this. Don’t think so? Right now you’re probably wishing you could go back to the way it was before this. And that was actually pretty damn bad. But in a little while once this really sinks in, you’d probably give up half your shit to go back to that.

 

[pro]

She’s gonna do it. Then the next one she’s gonna f*** you even more. You think this is as bad as it gets? In a few years they’re gonna give you something even worse, and you’ll be wishing you could go back to this. Don’t think so? Right now you’re probably wishing you could go back to the way it was before this. And that was actually pretty damn bad. But in a little while once this really sinks in, you’d probably give up half your shit to go back to that.

This Overton window effect is even way more far reaching, encompassing all areas of the modern life.

 

[FireMedic102]

One would think that an elected official overriding the will of the people would be immediate grounds for impeachment or worse, not in this state.

 

[meh]

IANAL, but I think it's likely the petition fight at least makes her cynical "emergency" thingie obvious. Will that help us in court one day? I can't say, and neither can anyone else here.

Exactly. I can well imagine it would raise the eyebrows of conservative SCOTUS members, but we all know how hard it is to get any case that far up. I don't think it can hurt any challenges. At any rate, I feel very confident that it has forced Maura to do something she does not want to do. That alone makes me feel reasonably good about it.

One would think that an elected official overriding the will of the people would be immediate grounds for impeachment or worse, not in this state.

I don't know that it's an impeachable sort of thing in any case, but A) there is quite obviously no emergency whatsoever, B) the law concerning such referendums was written precisely for this purpose, and C) does anyone doubt that if the shoe were on the other foot that the governor's position would be polar opposite? Anyway, the pandemic would have been a great opportunity for courts far and wide to stand against the abuse of emergency powers. Instead, they more or less affirmed a gigantic loophole making the Constitution irrelevant.

 

[headednorth]

Yup. We gave her the idea. Nice job guys.

Conveniently, this bill happens to close just about every "loophole" there is. Can't help but wonder if they were taking notes during all the discussions happening online over the years

 

[Reptile]

What about dealers who had AR15 lowers on their books before 8/2?

It's been my understanding that they can take their time to sell since the lowers were on the books, already.

It's just the new Glock folks that can't sell after the law takes place, right???

At least that was what some of our esteemed experts told us in the other thread.

Also, private sales between LTC holders are still legal, right?

 

[PappyM3]

What about dealers who had AR15 lowers on their books before 8/2?

It's been my understanding that they can take their time to sell since the lowers were on the books, already.

It's just the new Glock folks that can't sell after the law takes place, right???

At least that was what some of our esteemed experts told us in the other thread.

Also, private sales between LTC holders are still legal, right?

This has been discussed considerably.

No, dealers cannot sell them once the law goes into effect.

Not for any assaulty style firearm reason, but because all guns and receivers will need to be on approved firearm rosters for dealers to sell them.

But yes, private sales will still be okay.

 

[LakeTrout]

One would think that an elected official overriding the will of the people would be immediate grounds for impeachment or worse, not in this state.

Sadly. don’t think the will of the people is what you would like to think it would be. I think the elected officials in MA are doing according to the will of the people.

 

[Reptile]

This has been discussed considerably.

No, dealers cannot sell them once the law goes into effect.

Not for any assaulty style firearm reason, but because all guns and receivers will need to be on approved firearm rosters for dealers to sell them.

But yes, private sales will still be okay.

Holy sh*t!!!!

The dealers will be stock with unsold stock!!!

I'd load up on coffee and get in line at the Mill right about now.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

One would think that an elected official overriding the will of the people would be immediate grounds for impeachment or worse, not in this state.

Rescinding any gun ban is not the "will of the people" in MA.

 

[drgrant]

The dealers will be stock with unsold stock!!!

Not really. Most any smart dealers have contingency plans for all of their stuff.

Will it still suck for them? Yes, of course. But your phantasms are more alarmist vs realistic.

 

[drgrant]

It's just the new Glock folks that can't sell after the law takes place, right???

Because of the bus tunnel in cmr940 (cmr940 doesnt matter unless gun can fire) this isn't even certain yet. For example does a G17 frame count? G17 is on roster but not explicitly as a frame itself. But then again how could you even submit a frame for testing? Could one sell a frame because it's still listed/tested as a gun? Etc. More questions than answers.

 

[Reptile]

Not really. Most any smart dealers have contingency plans for all of their stuff.

Will it still suck for them? Yes, of course. But your phantasms are more alarmist vs realistic.

Not really. Most any smart dealers have contingency plans for all of their stuff.

Will it still suck for them? Yes, of course. But your phantasms are more alarmist vs realistic.

Some dealers at the Mill were selling Anderson Lowers for $300 each.

They paid $25 each.

After making such a killing I guess they wont mind off loading the rest on Gun Broker.

 

[drgrant]

Conveniently, this bill happens to close just about every "loophole" there is. Can't help but wonder if they were taking notes during all the discussions happening online over the years

It's not rocket science. They knew a long time ago, before frame transfers were even a common thing. Long before Healey and even Coakley. They just knew that realistically they couldn't do anything about them back then because it was a lot more difficult to get gigantic anti bills through.
In past years these kinds of bills frequently died in committee. Also remember they had plenty of rats too, like Ted Oven and others. They knew. We knew that they knew (because of moles we had in the AGs office at different times). None of this is new stuff. People have been literally talking about this possibility since before 2016 even.

 

[JuergenG]

Some dealers at the Mill were selling Anderson Lowers for $300 each.

They paid $25 each.

After making such a killing I guess they wont mind off loading the rest on Gun Broker.

Thou shalt not badmouth your competitors!

 

[Horatio Alger Jr]

Some dealers at the Mill were selling Anderson Lowers for $300 each.

They paid $25 each.

After making such a killing I guess they wont mind off loading the rest on Gun Broker.

How much is your noveske?

 

[Fixxah]

Well, IANAL but I imagine a friendly court would frown upon the situation she created.

A bill is announced that thumbs its nose at recent SCOTUS rulings by banning commonly used weapons and making it virtually impossible for people to obtain a license to purchase any weapons. the people then generate enough signatures to delay that action and force a vote, governor suddenly decides its an emergency and jams the bill through in this way.

Just feels like a situation that would garner additional sympathy from an impartial judge in a case at the SCOTUS level

It is simply a way to get her cobweb covered cavern wet again. Like the old days when a basketball could easily be swished while she was doing a handstand and popped out like a ping-pong ball in a vietnamese whore house.

 

[Dcdr]

Where can we get Maura tyrant shirts?

 

[pastera]

Fine. DROP. THE. LAWSUITS. Use their own playbook against them.

The petition was just a stall tactic anyway. Go for the throat with lawsuit and injunctions. They've effectively banned several classes of weapons and SCOTUS doesn't like that.

This
The SJC dropped Canjura right in the middle of all this shit.
The logic applies to all arms not just automatic knives.

While this won't be a fun ride while it lasts, it will be one to remember.

 

[pastera]

Fingers crossed, SCOTUS strikes down AWB nationwide in October before Halloween. Making this all moot.

Not all of it.
An AWB case doesn't cure the roster bullshit

 

[pastera]

Well, IANAL but I imagine a friendly court would frown upon the situation she created.

A bill is announced that thumbs its nose at recent SCOTUS rulings by banning commonly used weapons and making it virtually impossible for people to obtain a license to purchase any weapons. the people then generate enough signatures to delay that action and force a vote, governor suddenly decides its an emergency and jams the bill through in this way.

Just feels like a situation that would garner additional sympathy from an impartial judge in a case at the SCOTUS level

The problem isn't which way SCOTUS goes on this, it's the time to get it before them.
SCOTUS has made it abundantly clear that they WILL NOT take any 2a case on interlocutory appeal.