Emergency Preamble to be signed Weds?

Rob Boudrie said:
They are under the new MA law.
Click to expand...

Broc Tuah said:
A frame is a gun now.
Click to expand...

A frame is a gun when it comes to MGL under §121 (definitions for C. 140) and the silly requirements for dealers under §123(o) (the EOPSS "approved firearms roster")

But the AG's crap is not part of MGL, other than being authorized by C. 93A § 2(c).
It's under 940 CMR 16, which not only specifically applies only to handguns, but handguns that can actually fire.:

940 CMR 16 definitions said:
Handgun: shall mean a weapon, designed to be fired by the use of a single hand, from which
may be fired or ejected one or more solid projectiles propelled via a chemical ignition, and which has:
(a) a smooth bore with a barrel less than 18 inches long;​
(b) a smooth bore and an overall weapon length of less than 26 inches; or​
(c) a rifled bore with a barrel less than 16 inches.​
Click to expand...

A Gen-5 Glock 17 frame is a "firearm" according to MGL §121 and therefore the requirements of §123(o) apply to it. But it's on the EOPSS roster, so it doesn't get blocked.

That same Gen-5 Glock 17 frame is NOT a "handgun" in the context of 940 CMR 16, because it doesn't meet the above defintion, and therefore the AG's stuff doesn't apply.

This is why anything on the EOPSS "approved firearms roster" can be sold as a frame by any dealer who is willing to sell it that way... including Glocks.

If you want a CZ Shadow 2, you're kinda boned unless you have dual residency in a free state or can find someone in state to sell you one.
 
Last edited:
milktree said:
A frame is a gun when it comes to MGL under §121 (definitions for C. 140) and the silly requirements for dealers under §123(o) (the EOPSS "approved firearms roster")

But the AG's crap is not part of MGL, (other than being authorized by C. 93A, § 2(c). )
It's under 940 CMR 16, which not only specifically applies only to handguns, but handguns that can actually fire.:

A Gen-5 Glock 17 frame is a "firearm" according to MGL §121 and therefore the requirements of §123(o) apply to it. But it's on the EOPSS roster, so it doesn't get blocked.

That same Gen-5 Glock 17 frame is NOT a "handgun" in the context of 940 CMR 16, because it doesn't meet the above definition, and therefore the AG's stuff doesn't apply.

This is why anything on the EOPSS "approved firearms roster" can be sold as a frame by any dealer who is willing to sell it that way... including Glocks.

If you want a CZ Shadow 2, you're kinda boned unless you have dual residency in a free state or can find someone in state to sell you one.
Click to expand...
Your logic appears perfect to me. Now, let's see what the dealers decide to do with it. 🤔
 
milktree said:
A frame is a gun when it comes to MGL under §121 (definitions for C. 140) and the silly requirements for dealers under §123(o) (the EOPSS "approved firearms roster")

But the AG's crap is not part of MGL, other than being authorized by C. 93A § 2(c).
It's under 940 CMR 16, which not only specifically applies only to handguns, but handguns that can actually fire.:



A Gen-5 Glock 17 frame is a "firearm" according to MGL §121 and therefore the requirements of §123(o) apply to it. But it's on the EOPSS roster, so it doesn't get blocked.

That same Gen-5 Glock 17 frame is NOT a "handgun" in the context of 940 CMR 16, because it doesn't meet the above defintion, and therefore the AG's stuff doesn't apply.

This is why anything on the EOPSS "approved firearms roster" can be sold as a frame by any dealer who is willing to sell it that way... including Glocks.

If you want a CZ Shadow 2, you're kinda boned unless you have dual residency in a free state or can find someone in state to sell you one.
Click to expand...

That is a great point.
 
milktree said:
A frame is a gun when it comes to MGL under §121 (definitions for C. 140) and the silly requirements for dealers under §123(o) (the EOPSS "approved firearms roster")

But the AG's crap is not part of MGL, other than being authorized by C. 93A § 2(c).
It's under 940 CMR 16, which not only specifically applies only to handguns, but handguns that can actually fire.:



A Gen-5 Glock 17 frame is a "firearm" according to MGL §121 and therefore the requirements of §123(o) apply to it. But it's on the EOPSS roster, so it doesn't get blocked.

That same Gen-5 Glock 17 frame is NOT a "handgun" in the context of 940 CMR 16, because it doesn't meet the above defintion, and therefore the AG's stuff doesn't apply.

This is why anything on the EOPSS "approved firearms roster" can be sold as a frame by any dealer who is willing to sell it that way... including Glocks.

If you want a CZ Shadow 2, you're kinda boned unless you have dual residency in a free state or can find someone in state to sell you one.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your analysis, but this stuff makes my head hurt.

I never realized just how complex and restrictive CT's gun laws were until I started living in both GA and CT. MA's laws are worse than CT's.
 
EJFudd said:
Your logic appears perfect to me. Now, let's see what the dealers decide to do with it. 🤔
Click to expand...
The guys at the mill have been coloring right up to but always inside the lines for years. If their legal counsel says it's legal, then they will continue to thumb their noses at the AG.
 
allen-1 said:
I appreciate your analysis, but this stuff makes my head hurt.

I never realized just how complex and restrictive CT's gun laws were until I started living in both GA and CT. MA's laws are worse than CT's.
Click to expand...

As someone who moved to MA from CT about a dozen years ago I can tell you that MA gun laws are much much more poorly written than CTs. I had a deep understanding of CT gun laws until this springs latest update. I honestly don't have the motivation or the time to really understand it anymore.

MA laws make constant circular references that require you to reference other statutes before you can understand the statute you are looking at.

CT laws are pretty much written so they can stand alone.
 
CrackPot said:
Which can lead to an interesting conundrum for a MA Dealer. FFLs as a condition of their federal license must follow all relevant state and local laws and regulations. So if sale of long guns not on an actual published roster is against state law, then while there might be a defense in state court, there would not be such a defense at the federal level.
Click to expand...

“
Pursuant to the Act, firearms dealers may continue to
sell firearms that are listed on Commonwealth approved rosters, which may be found at the
following link:

https://www.mass.gov/lists/approved-firearms-rosters”

So are Glocks good to go? They haven’t passed the drop testing, but this makes it sound like any “firearm” on an approved roster is good to go. From the mouth of the same people who approve the drop testing companies.
 
KH56010 said:
“
Pursuant to the Act, firearms dealers may continue to
sell firearms that are listed on Commonwealth approved rosters, which may be found at the
following link:

https://www.mass.gov/lists/approved-firearms-rosters”

So are Glocks good to go? They haven’t passed the drop testing, but this makes it sound like any “firearm” on an approved roster is good to go. From the mouth of the same people who approve the drop testing companies.
Click to expand...
Glocks are on the roster and have passed all required testing including drop testing. They have only been sellable to LEO because of 940 CMR 16. Under the new regime they are theoretically sellable as frames BUT you have to figure out how to do it legally. Most dealers will fail to figure out the right process.
 
milktree said:
A frame is a gun when it comes to MGL under §121 (definitions for C. 140) and the silly requirements for dealers under §123(o) (the EOPSS "approved firearms roster")

But the AG's crap is not part of MGL, other than being authorized by C. 93A § 2(c).
It's under 940 CMR 16, which not only specifically applies only to handguns, but handguns that can actually fire.:



A Gen-5 Glock 17 frame is a "firearm" according to MGL §121 and therefore the requirements of §123(o) apply to it. But it's on the EOPSS roster, so it doesn't get blocked.

That same Gen-5 Glock 17 frame is NOT a "handgun" in the context of 940 CMR 16, because it doesn't meet the above defintion, and therefore the AG's stuff doesn't apply.

This is why anything on the EOPSS "approved firearms roster" can be sold as a frame by any dealer who is willing to sell it that way... including Glocks.

If you want a CZ Shadow 2, you're kinda boned unless you have dual residency in a free state or can find someone in state to sell you one.
Click to expand...
I agree with you but the devil is in the details. There are a lot more requirements on a MA licensed dealer than the roster itself. Figuring out how to navigate ALL dealer requirements to sell such frames/receivers of on roster guns is not as easy as you think. Everyone's lord and savior who got us 3 less weeks of doing business, Toby, has admitted he has no clue on how to do it.

I can tell you that you need an 07 to turn a pistol/rifle into a frame/receiver. You need a MA licensed dealer other than the 07 to do the frame/receiver transfer. But there is a lot more to it than that and the exercise is left to the reader, their FFL and their respective lawyers to figure it out.
 
CrackPot said:
I agree with you but the devil is in the details. There are a lot more requirements on a MA licensed dealer than the roster itself. Figuring out how to navigate ALL dealer requirements to sell such frames/receivers of on roster guns is not as easy as you think. Everyone's lord and savior who got us 3 less weeks of doing business, Toby, has admitted he has no clue on how to do it.

I can tell you that you need an 07 to turn a pistol/rifle into a frame/receiver. You need a MA licensed dealer other than the 07 to do the frame/receiver transfer. But there is a lot more to it than that and the exercise is left to the reader, their FFL and their respective lawyers to figure it out.
Click to expand...

So we are back to $1000+ used Glocks?

(heads off to the classifieds to sell a well worn G19, Gen 3)
 
CrackPot said:
Glocks are on the roster and have passed all required testing including drop testing. They have only been sellable to LEO because of 940 CMR 16. Under the new regime they are theoretically sellable as frames BUT you have to figure out how to do it legally. Most dealers will fail to figure out the right process.
Click to expand...
Wasn't sure if you were going to consider 940 CMR 16 as expired since it refers to "weapons" and "handguns" neither of which are defined in H4885.
CrackPot said:
Glocks are on the roster and have passed all required testing including drop testing. They have only been sellable to LEO because of 940 CMR 16. Under the new regime they are theoretically sellable as frames BUT you have to figure out how to do it legally. Most dealers will fail to figure out the right process.
Click to expand...
"Handgun: shall mean a weapon, designed to be fired by the use of a single hand, from which
may be fired or ejected one or more solid projectiles propelled via a chemical ignition, and which
has:
(a) a smooth bore with a barrel less than 18 inches long;
(b) a smooth bore and an overall weapon length of less than 26 inches; or
(c) a rifled bore with a barrel less than 16 inches"

So, if this is installed before sale... IGB 16″ Threaded Barrel for Glock - IGB 16″ Threaded Barrel for Glock
 

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