Solar Panels in NE the good, bad, and ugly opinions

Woodsloafer said:
A barn roof might also be fine - my buddy installed a bunch on his riding arena, the south side of the roof (which was huge) could not be seen from the house/road, which is a perfect situation. I am building a new house next year and I'm not going to ugly it up with solar panels, especially after going through all the work to design a nice looking house.
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I can't bring myself to even consider putting panels on my pre USA barn. I want something at ground level which doubles as a carport or shed, it would be like getting a roof for free.
 
fencer said:
If you say so...
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Big difference between being able to vent and not hitting the house with a hose.
In truth, getting through a panel is much easier than a shingle roof.

Also, I read the article and it is so full of incorrect information it's almost useless.
No system installed in at least the last decade doesn't have fireman protection built in that drops the voltage to completely safe levels upon loss of grid connection in a few seconds. That's why my system has a disconnect setup for electric and fire safety.
The article also speaks to it being safe if the whole roof isn't covered - again it's been code for a very long time that there must be enough room for firefighters to get up the roof.

Does that mean that fire crews won't be afraid, no. But that article is bullshit and that chief should be ashamed for not being knowledgeable about the systems in place today
 
MFSP101 said:
Could you give a comparison on how it paid for itself in That time? I won’t lease or rent. Looked into purchase and I can’t see it being cost effective for 10 or more years.
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My average bill was about $250/month with an annual usage of about 15MWHr.
System cost was 35k before subsidies and 18k after all of the federal, state and local rebates because of a very short term state program that did a 20% buy down on loan principal (wife had just gone back to school so we squeaked under the maximum for the lowest level extra subsidies)
Roof and tree work were 8k

System produces 11-12MWhr/year
SREC II payments average around $200-$250/MWhr paid quarterly for ten years.
The loan + residual electric bill was less than the bill without solar and for most months the SREC earned was enough to cover both plus some.
However I put the SREC into the loan and paid what my bill would have been if I didn't have solar to kill off the loan as fast as possible.

I don't have NG so my house is electric except for heat (oil, pellet and wood)
My bill in the last few years has gone up since I swapped to a hybrid electric water heater and got an EV. But that increased it from under $30/month average to about 70-80.

However, you need to look at your bills and get a reputable company to do a solar survey.
That survey will be very accurate but you need to ignore all of the BS that most large companies will toss at you about savings.
What you are looking at is over your net metering period does the system save you money now, not on some future inflated power cost along with "increased home value".
Without big subsidies, ten years is about what it takes unless you have really high power prices and usage.
 
Yazz said:
I have a co-worker who had them installed 4 years ago and the panels are now on recall and not producing as promised.
I have portable panels and I can tell you they do not all work as promised.
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Go with the wrong company and you get bottom of the bucket quality for for top dollar price.

One of the companies that quoted a system using panels from a company in bankruptcy.

I went with LG panels and a SolarEdge inverter and optimizers. Both well known, large companies with good reputations.
 
pastera said:
Go with the wrong company and you get bottom of the bucket quality for for top dollar price.

One of the companies that quoted a system using panels from a company in bankruptcy.

I went with LG panels and a SolarEdge inverter and optimizers. Both well known, large companies with good reputations.
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Yup, I know of a couple people that had (small) fires related to their installs, wasn't the solar panels or the equipment, it was shitty workmanship.
 
union said:
For the guys that have the panels. What were you paying a month before and after installation? This summer I think my highest bill was like 325ish. Usually run in the mid 100s most months. I have a nice south facing roof that gets no shade. Solar might be a good option but I need to do some research.
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Do a annual average
Under 200/month average means a long payback if ever
250 or more a month means a likely decent payback period.

It all depends on the subsidies to make it work.
 
Woodsloafer said:
I don't think that is true, it could be a zoning thing which is community/snob specific. I have seen a few in north central MA that are ground mounted - that is the route I think I am going with for the new house. Because of how far I am off the road and wanting to have underground electric, the cost of solar/batteries may not be that much different from connecting to the grid.
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I had a neighbor with 15 acres near me in Hubbardston. He had 4 huge arrays that would track the movement of the sun then lie flat at night in his field.Then pop up in the morning to knock the snow off. I have no idea what that cost....but it had to be well over 100K, as they had significant concrete foundations and steelwork.

They looked like shit. I hunted that field edge and it was horrible looking from the treestand. He ended up moving and sold at the top of the market, and probably recovered his cost...but if the market wasnt good, he would have lost money Im sure.

All those solar farms and windmills are a fxcking blight on the New England Landscape.......the amazing thing is the greenies will cut trees to put them in but won't cut a tree to manage the forest properly. Its retarded.

Im amazed how much we dont have solar down in FL..I see some, not much though. .....we get WAY more sun, and have a shit ton of parking lots that would be perfect to not only cover the vehicles from exposure with the panels, but grab a ton of electricity. All the while not looking any worse than a strip mall parking lot looks already. Likely the cost is not worth it because electricity is cheap down here due to Nuclear being used.
 
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Mark from ? said:
I had a neighbor with 15 acres near me in Hubbardston. He had 4 huge arrays that would track the movement of the sun then lie flat at night in his field.Then pop up in the morning to knock the snow off. I have no idea what that cost....but it had to be well over 100K, as they had significant concrete foundations and steelwork.

They looked like shit. I hunted that field edge and it was horrible...... He ended up moving and sold at the top of the market, and probably recovered his cost...but if the market wasnt good, he would have lost money Im sure.

All those solar farms and windmills are a fxcking blight on the New England Landscape.......the amazing thing is the greenies will cut trees to put them in but won't cut a tree to manage the forest properly. Its retarded.

Im amazed how much we dont have solar down in FL..I see some, not much though. .....we get WAY more sun, and have a shit ton of parking lots that would be perfect to not only cover the vehicles from exposure with the panels, but grab a ton of electricity. All the while not looking any worse than a strip mall parking lot looks already. Likely the cost is not worth it because electricity is cheap down here due to Nuclear being used.
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Are you a closet NIMBY? 😆
 
Woodsloafer said:
Are you a closet NIMBY? 😆
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Not against them for anyone who owns their land and pays the taxes....they can do what they want......but telling the truth...they look like shit in the middle of a farm field! Is taking a field up with them permanently instead of growing food wise as well for the future? Not so sure. There are better places to put them is my point.

Reality is....and what is most annoying, is these greenies allow that shit, but won't allow a pipeline which is a wildlife corridor and open walking space.

GMAFB.
 
Mark from ? said:
Not against them for anyone who owns their land and pays the taxes....they can do what they want......but telling the truth...they look like shit!
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A farm down the street from me has a set (4 large arrays) exactly like, I think one of the arrays is broken as it no longer moves.
 
Woodsloafer said:
A farm down the street from me has a set (4 large arrays) exactly like, I think one of the arrays is broken as it no longer moves.
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Like the windmills Princeton is paying for that don't work......Average Princeton electric bill is over $350 dollars month which is retarded......$30 of it at least every month, towards non functioning windmills on Mt. Wachusett.
 
Woodsloafer said:
They really frucked up on that one, that's for sure.
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Lotta libs in Princeton....you get what you vote for.

One of my good buddies has had enough and selling his and his inlaws houses in Princeton and moving the whole family to SC. Figures tax savings of 6K a year, bigger house, and will still pocket 200K from the sale up here and have no mortgage...where he has a small one up here now.

His inlaws who have bigger land.......they will pocket 300K and live in a smaller house, and save 7K a year in taxes. They are retired and at the point in their lives where they love the idea of an HOA and no maintenance. HOA isn't too bad there, not like here in FL...where they are getting retarded.

I know most people don't want them, but I guess with 7K a year tax savings, 5K savings on no heating bills, and low electricity bills as compared to MA. He said the electricity bill difference alone will make up the 100 dollar a month HOA.....and the rest of the 12K a year between heating and taxes goes in the bank on top of the 300K they net from the MA house sale.

If they live an additional 10 years that's 420K not including investment interest income. And no more maintenance or spending on gas, machinery, plow trucks, etc....which is unrealized savings in itself, because his F350 is shot, and he would have had to replace it for 80K or something. Now he's just buying a new car for 30K.
 
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Woke panels on your roof to power your woke Tesla? Nah I’ll be rolling coal thank you very much. I hate the ozone layer.
 
Mark from ? said:
Like the windmills Princeton is paying for that don't work......Average Princeton electric bill is over $350 dollars month which is retarded......$30 of it at least every month, towards non functioning windmills on Mt. Wachusett.
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Wind power sucks around here - while we have decent potential for wind power the poor reliability and high maintenance costs for wind turbines make them a bad investment on a large scale.
 
pastera said:
Do a annual average
Under 200/month average means a long payback if ever
250 or more a month means a likely decent payback period.

It all depends on the subsidies to make it work.
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Not that I’d consider a roof panel system on my 12:12 facing exactly @ 180 degrees but last months electric bill was $158.00. Highest I can recall was 240ish.
Payback would be a very long time.
 
EJFudd said:
Yet another reason why I hate big government: Subsidies for otherwise non-economic endeavors. :(
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Unfortunately we all pay for these money grabs so if I can recover some of my wasted tax dollars, I'm going for it.

If we put all of the green energy money into developing safe, affordable Nuke plants then we would have had abundant, clean and cheap power decades ago.
But it's harder to hide waste, fraud and abuse in those types of programs on such a grand scale.
 
pastera said:
Unfortunately we all pay for these money grabs so if I can recover some of my wasted tax dollars, I'm going for it.
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I know. It's like "play the game and get some of your tax money back." Don't play their game and you are taking it hard on both ends. This actually applies to a lot of things today. Go along with big government and get rewarded for it. Don't go along and get really screwed. :(

The truth is that we oriented and designed our retirement place for roof solar. We knew that the day would come when we would have no other choice. Our electric bills are staggeringly high and the state is still stalling on letting my town go municipal aggregation.

All I am hoping for is a solar system that will last, doesn't look like Hell and doesn't bankrupt us up front or as the laws change. So far, I'm still waiting.
 
union said:
For the guys that have the panels. What were you paying a month before and after installation? This summer I think my highest bill was like 325ish. Usually run in the mid 100s most months. I have a nice south facing roof that gets no shade. Solar might be a good option but I need to do some research.
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Summer peak was $450. After.. $0
 
EJFudd said:
I know. It's like "play the game and get some of your tax money back." Don't play their game and you are taking it hard on both ends. This actually applies to a lot of things today. Go along with big government and get rewarded for it. Don't go along and get really screwed. :(

The truth is that we oriented and designed our retirement place for roof solar. We knew that the day would come when we would have no other choice. Our electric bills are staggeringly high and the state is still stalling on letting my town go municipal aggregation.

All I am hoping for is a solar system that will last, doesn't look like Hell and doesn't bankrupt us up front or as the laws change. So far, I'm still waiting.
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Monocrystalline "gridless" panels are much better looking but, yes, the array still doesn't look awesome on your roof. If your house faces due north so the array is on the backside then its easier to deal with if you don't like the look.

If you have penetrations that force you to place gaps in the array it doesn't matter what panel you select - it looks like shit. I pulled the 25 year old skylights off the front side of my roof so that my array covered as much of the roof as possible. I didn't get the "gridless" panels because they weren't proven and were much more expensive at the time. A friend went with them shortly after in order to appease the wife - they have a lower pitch roof and got edge-to-edge approved so the roof looks like a black glass surface.

As far as the tax game, I got hit hard on paying for my kids education twice since they never stepped foot in a public school other than to go with the wife to drop off paperwork for homeschooling.
For years I refused to play along with the game and didn't take advantage of available subsidies. Now, I grab them when it makes financial sense - woodstove, hybrid water heater, solar, insulation/weather sealing, heat pumps, EV. The wife and I still pay enough taxes to have enticed our forefathers to break open a powder keg but living in liberty's grave I do what I can to reduce feeding the beast while staying alive.
 
From my kids AND teh guy they had to come out to look at the panels last week, do NOT EVER USE Sunova. They suck.

Kids got a call from Sunova that there seemed to be a problem in February. "We'll call to send someone out." After a month or so, my SIL called. "What? No. There is no problem." Another call - another denial of any problems. . . . even though THEY said there was a problem.

Well, they started getting bills from the power co. Lots of them. Took until LAST WEEK to send a guy out that said, "yeah, your inverter is shot."

They have a guaranteed-purchase amount per year. Plus an email confirm of the call back in Feb. Sunova is gonna have to pay.

Oh, and they sent the credits for 2 quarters after they bought the house to teh old owner. "Well, he said he's gonna send them to you, so we're good."

They're gonna end up with a big check from Sunova soon, I suspect.

DON'T USE SUNOVA!!!!!!


I was highly interested when we were in the planning stage for our house 2 years ago. Now? I'll just use the backup generator I'm installing and let this whole solar thing die. Gah!
 
pastera said:
Monocrystalline "gridless" panels are much better looking but, yes, the array still doesn't look awesome on your roof. If your house faces due north so the array is on the backside then its easier to deal with if you don't like the look.
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That would be far more palatable... i.e., a large south-facing rear roof away from sight. No such luck in our case.
pastera said:
If you have penetrations that force you to place gaps in the array it doesn't matter what panel you select - it looks like shit. I pulled the 25 year old skylights off the front side of my roof so that my array covered as much of the roof as possible.
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Smart move. [thumbsup]We specifically designed our south facing "solar system friendly" roof with zero penetrations or interferences of any kind.
pastera said:
I didn't get the "gridless" panels because they weren't proven and were much more expensive at the time. A friend went with them shortly after in order to appease the wife - they have a lower pitch roof and got edge-to-edge approved so the roof looks like a black glass surface.
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This is the toughest part for me. They all look like Hell to my eyes. ☹️ Maybe Elon's Musk's solar roof thang, but I know that's insane money. :oops:
pastera said:
As far as the tax game, I got hit hard on paying for my kids education twice since they never stepped foot in a public school other than to go with the wife to drop off paperwork for homeschooling.
For years I refused to play along with the game and didn't take advantage of available subsidies. Now, I grab them when it makes financial sense - woodstove, hybrid water heater, solar, insulation/weather sealing, heat pumps, EV. The wife and I still pay enough taxes to have enticed our forefathers to break open a powder keg but living in liberty's grave I do what I can to reduce feeding the beast while staying alive.
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I'm a naturally independent & stubborn old fool. I hate big leftist government telling me what I can and can't do. My natural inclination is to reject anything that only makes economic sense with massive government subsidies. I'll probably only install solar the day someone proves to me that solar on my roof makes sense without the government borrowing money from China to pay for it. :(
 
EJFudd said:
I'm a naturally independent & stubborn old fool. I hate big leftist government telling me what I can and can't do. My natural inclination is to reject anything that only makes economic sense with massive government subsidies. I'll probably only install solar the day someone proves to me that solar on my roof makes sense without the government borrowing money from China to pay for it. :(
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I'm looking at upgrading my inverter to allow off grid use - that coupled with an EV would let me power the essentials and still get enough charge in the car for moderate use.
Not ideal but would keep me going in the future when the government defaults and our grid goes to shit (and it will)
 
JoeA said:
Looking for some input on solar panels in Ma. The most recent I could find here dates back a while.
My electric bills have been increasing month to month with National Grid after we installed an addition to our house that has three mini-splits for heating and cooling.
I have no intention to buy an electric car, although per code I have an outlet roughed in next to the sub panel in the garage. So a new Tesla isn't out of the question.
Who's gone down that road with solar?
Purchased or leased the panels?
Thanks in advance for your help.
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I finally purchased solar with 24 panels 10 kw and it was installed in October/2023. I had been trying to get solar for 8 years until I found a company that would provide and install a uni axis (North/South East/West tracking) ground mount. I also included a Tesla battery (soon to be two batteries) The options I chose are much more expensive but I have a clerestory Saltbox facing north... Besides, I would never consider installing on a roof. I fill my battery in just over 2 hours (Tesla 2 is 5kw flow Tesla3 has 15kw flow and not compatible with Tesla2) and that most lasts the night... the 2nd Battery soon will provide max coverage overnight during the winter. If you are using a mini splits (I also have two) you might want to purchase the Tesla3 batteries the draw for mini-splits is higher. (I use 1.2kw for 18kw & 8kw) The ground mount is made in Burlington, VT my installer is in Burlington, MA Solaris Renewable's. It is massive and solid with relatively small footprint on the ground and the galvanized steel mount fits 4 feet deep below the surface on a precast concrete pad... I can mow under it with a small tractor... it is not going to move.
 
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