The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

maltc said:
Breaking:

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Would this even matter at this point?

If a prospective LTC applicant wanted to take this class next week and passes - he will still have to wait months for an appointment at the local police to submit his application for a LTC.

So, by the time he gets an appointment for a LTC - the new law would be in effect.

I have read on NES that it can take many months to to a year to even get an appointment to apply at the local police for a LTC.
 
Harry Christopher said:
View attachment 905121

By Glenn Kittle, Photojournalist: Anthony Garuti and Tyler Beraldi
Published: Aug. 2, 2024 at 6:35 PM EDT|Updated: 25 minutes ago

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (WGGB/WSHM) - New gun reform legislation was recently signed into law here in the Massachusetts. Some gun rights advocates are critical, and police departments are trying to get the word out that there have been some changes if you’re looking to get a license to carry.
Changes to what’s required to own a gun in Massachusetts includes more training, including live shooting drills, de-escalation tactics, and knowledge of use of force laws.

We spoke with a local police chief about this updated training process. Meanwhile, an amendment lawyer told us the government doesn’t have the infrastructure in place, meaning people might have to wait months to get a license to carry a firearm.

“I don’t agree with any of the parts of the bill, i don’t think the bill adds anything to our public safety,” Attorney Daniel Hagan told us.
He believes the recently signed Massachusetts gun reform law is unconstitutional.

“It limits what you can buy as of October, every single shotgun or rifle can’t be sold by a gun shop, so basically, hunting rifles in the state of Massachusetts. This is extreme gun control.”
The law also added more updates to already existing training in order to obtain a gun license.

Ware Police Chief, Shawn Crevier shared With Western Mass News what potential gun owners can expect.
“Live shooting they’re going to have to do now, there’s going to be de-escalation tactics that they’re going to be touching on, use of force targeting that they’re going to educate the people on,” he said.

However, Hagan says this updated training could hold up LTCs for months.
He says the Bay State doesn’t have the infrastructure in place to implement these new training methods.
“Certification of new instructors, a whole new curriculum that people have to follow with their training and none of that is set up. So, they’re going to stop issuing LTCs on August 1st unless you have this training, which they have not provide any of the infrastructure to actually allow anyone to obtain the training.”

Chief Crevier also anticipates the new law could lengthen the course and up the cost for a license to carry.
“The normal course right now was four hours I believe, so that could increase to six to eight hours and I’m sure the cost will probably at least double. I see anywhere from $75 now to probably $200.”

Commonwealth Second Amendment, a gun advocacy group in Massachusetts, has filed a federal lawsuit challenging the law.
Hagan is one of the lawyers in the group, he told Western Mass News.
He claims the state is hurting lawful gun owners rather than catching criminals.
“You can’t suspend the constitution, so, I think the injunction will come down on that provision, in terms of the rest of the lawsuit, I guess it will remain to be seen until we can see what the training requirements are.”

Hagan also said there is no updated list of firearms that people can or cannot purchase under this new law.

Copyright 2024. Western Mass News (WGGB/WSHM). All rights reserved.
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Do you have a link to this article?
 
Reptile said:
I have read on NES that it can take many months to to a year to even get an appointment to apply at the local police for a LTC.
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Some, not all.

My town (which was dark red, verging on black back when I applied) gets things done quickly and efficiently now. I'd have every confidence that if I took a safety class today, I'd have an LTC in hand within a couple months.
 
OK, let me see if I have this correct, not being well versed in black powder rifles. Does this new law say that if a black powder rifle uses a cap or a primer it is now a firearm? If this is true would this mean that black powder rifles would need to be tested to be put on the roster in order to be sold? Good luck with that. How in hell would they be able to even test them? Would this also mean that there could end up being no black powder anything available for sale unless it was an acctually flint lock?
Do those even have serial numbers?
 
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JDL said:
OK, let me see if I have this correct, not being well versed in black powder rifles. Does this new law say that if a black powder rifle uses a cap or a primer it is now a firearm? If this is true would this mean that black powder rifles would need to be tested to be put on the roster in order to be sold? Good luck with that. How in hell would they be able to even test them? Would this also mean that there could end up being no black powder anything available for sale unless it was an acctually flint lock?
Do those even have serial numbers?
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I thought I remembered there being a line in there saying that is it uses a modern primer IE:209 shotgun primer in inline muzzleloaders. I can’t find it now.

This is also GOALS interpretation:
Antique Firearms

  • SECTION 15. Creates a separate definition for “Antique Firearm”. Clarifies where a license is required to possess antiques/muzzle loaders. Any that use a modern primer may be considered a modern firearm.

The problem I see is the definition of ammunition. I don’t see where they changed it so if it is still the same ammunition components are ammunition. That means primers are ammunition


This is what I currently see:

Antique firearm”, any firearm or replica thereof manufactured in or prior to the year 1899 if such firearm: (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; provided, that “antique firearm” shall include any muzzle loading rifle, shotgun or pistol that is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and that cannot use fixed ammunition, unless the firearm: (a) incorporates a firearm frame or receiver; (b) is converted into a muzzle loading firearm; or (c) is a muzzle loading firearm that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.
 
HorizontalHunter said:
I thought I remembered there being a line in there saying that is it uses a modern primer IE:209 shotgun primer in inline muzzleloaders. I can’t find it now.

This is also GOALS interpretation:
Antique Firearms

  • SECTION 15. Creates a separate definition for “Antique Firearm”. Clarifies where a license is required to possess antiques/muzzle loaders. Any that use a modern primer may be considered a modern firearm.

The problem I see is the definition of ammunition. I don’t see where they changed it so if it is still the same ammunition components are ammunition. That means primers are ammunition


This is what I currently see:

Antique firearm”, any firearm or replica thereof manufactured in or prior to the year 1899 if such firearm: (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; provided, that “antique firearm” shall include any muzzle loading rifle, shotgun or pistol that is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and that cannot use fixed ammunition, unless the firearm: (a) incorporates a firearm frame or receiver; (b) is converted into a muzzle loading firearm; or (c) is a muzzle loading firearm that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.
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OK thanks. That is quite a mouthful.
 
Picton said:
Some, not all.

My town (which was dark red, verging on black back when I applied) gets things done quickly and efficiently now. I'd have every confidence that if I took a safety class today, I'd have an LTC in hand within a couple months.
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Mine too. The licensing officer is very pro 2A and has told me to go get my C&R. I’ve been dragging my feet waiting to see what this law would do, which turned out to be nothing. I nag him to get his GMRS license.
 
Reptile said:
Would this even matter at this point?

If a prospective LTC applicant wanted to take this class next week and passes - he will still have to wait months for an appointment at the local police to submit his application for a LTC.

So, by the time he gets an appointment for a LTC - the new law would be in effect.

I have read on NES that it can take many months to to a year to even get an appointment to apply at the local police for a LTC.
Click to expand...
Exactamundo.
 
TG Pioneer said:
Mine too. The licensing officer is very pro 2A and has told me to go get my C&R. I’ve been dragging my feet waiting to see what this law would do, which turned out to be nothing. I nag him to get his GMRS license.
Click to expand...

It really is crazy. I've had my license nearly 20 years, through about three Chiefs and [it seems like] a dozen different licensing officers, but it's gotten steadily better since literally the year after I got my LTC. The culture in that building did a complete flip-flop. When I started, I had a T&H restriction until renewal (until I wrote a groveling letter after a year) and so did everyone else. My first license took about three months. And yes, they did want a live-fire LTC course.

The first time I renewed, the LO bent over backward on a weekend to get my PIN squared away so I could buy. Then last time I renewed, the entire thing took less than a month.
 
Reptile said:
Would this even matter at this point?

If a prospective LTC applicant wanted to take this class next week and passes - he will still have to wait months for an appointment at the local police to submit his application for a LTC.

So, by the time he gets an appointment for a LTC - the new law would be in effect.

I have read on NES that it can take many months to to a year to even get an appointment to apply at the local police for a LTC.
Click to expand...
Yep still more fighting left to do.
 
Reptile said:
Would this even matter at this point?

If a prospective LTC applicant wanted to take this class next week and passes - he will still have to wait months for an appointment at the local police to submit his application for a LTC.

So, by the time he gets an appointment for a LTC - the new law would be in effect.

I have read on NES that it can take many months to a year to even get an appointment to apply at the local police for a LTC.
Click to expand...
Some towns are definitely better than others. FRB sure loves to take their sweet ass time though. Was on “pending print” status for 2.5 months until I could get on the phone with a guy who actually cared and informed me that some of his coworkers purposely choose to make folks wait. He printed it out while I was on the phone and I got it about 2 weeks after.
 
Sugarsweet said:
Some towns are definitely better than others. FRB sure loves to take their sweet ass time though. Was on “pending print” status for 2.5 months until I could get on the phone with a guy who actually cared and informed me that some of his coworkers purposely choose to make folks wait. He printed it out while I was on the phone and I got it about 2 weeks after.
Click to expand...

It’s pretty amazing how much it can differ by town. I live in the middle of the state and have been pretty lucky with all 3 times I’ve had to renew. The last time was a few months back and I remember walking into the licensing officers office (say that five times fast), and saying how I was impressed it was less than a week from when I dropped off the paperwork until I was sitting in his office. He said it would have been sooner but he had been on vacation for the long weekend. I said how many towns in the state try to drag it out and he said something along the lines of “I don’t get it, the more good guys with guns in this town, the easier my job is.”

edit: adding the caveat that of course I know that if directed from our overlords, he would still prefer to keep his job/pension and enforce unconstitutional laws.
 
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Reptile said:
Would this even matter at this point?

If a prospective LTC applicant wanted to take this class next week and passes - he will still have to wait months for an appointment at the local police to submit his application for a LTC.

So, by the time he gets an appointment for a LTC - the new law would be in effect.

I have read on NES that it can take many months to to a year to even get an appointment to apply at the local police for a LTC.
Click to expand...
Depends on the PD.
 
I know this is going to sound crazy. I used to live in Springfield 12 years ago and I got my LTC years ago there. My interview was just being ask a few questions by the watch letunent as he was passing by. Now I do admit I did have a small part time business out of my house. I was issued a LTC with the restriction Lawful Protection. I renewed several times without any problems and no interview. I even applied for a machine gun licence and got that without any problems or interview. This was all through the 80's. I moved out of Springfield in 2012 and renewed in Wilbraham for both of my licenses without any problem. I renewed in Wilbrahan once again last year. All I had to do is drop my applications off, I didn't have to pay this time because I had turned over 70. The next day I got a phone call from the licensing officer letting me know that he sent me an email with my recept and that I made an error by transposition a number on my machine gun licence and looked up the correct information and corrected it for me. In 7 weeks I received both my licenses. So not all towns are bad and even the ones that are supposed to be bad are not always.
 
JDL said:
OK, let me see if I have this correct, not being well versed in black powder rifles. Does this new law say that if a black powder rifle uses a cap or a primer it is now a firearm? If this is true would this mean that black powder rifles would need to be tested to be put on the roster in order to be sold? Good luck with that. How in hell would they be able to even test them? Would this also mean that there could end up being no black powder anything available for sale unless it was an acctually flint lock?
Do those even have serial numbers?
Click to expand...
130 “Antique firearm”, any firearm or replica thereof manufactured in or prior to the year 1899 if such firearm: (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; provided, that “antique firearm” shall include any muzzle loading rifle, shotgun or pistol that is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and that cannot use fixed ammunition, unless the firearm: (a) incorporates a firearm frame or receiver; (b) is converted into a muzzle loading firearm; or (c) is a muzzle loading firearm that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.
Click to expand...

A 209 primer is not fixed ammunition.
Not sure where this started but there is no support for it
 
HorizontalHunter said:
The problem I see is the definition of ammunition. I don’t see where they changed it so if it is still the same ammunition components are ammunition. That means primers are ammunition
Click to expand...
The primer = ammunition always was an issue, but so was the powder and projectile.

The difference is if a gun used a "fixed cartridge"
www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of FIXED AMMUNITION

ammunition in which the projectile is permanently attached to a case that contains the primer and the propellant in distinction from separate-loading ammunition… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com www.merriam-webster.com
 
JDL said:
OK, let me see if I have this correct, not being well versed in black powder rifles. Does this new law say that if a black powder rifle uses a cap or a primer it is now a firearm? If this is true would this mean that black powder rifles would need to be tested to be put on the roster in order to be sold? Good luck with that. How in hell would they be able to even test them? Would this also mean that there could end up being no black powder anything available for sale unless it was an acctually flint lock?
Do those even have serial numbers?
Click to expand...
Muzzleloaders that use a 209 shotshell primer for ignition. Which means most inline muzzleloaders. Traditional muzzleloaders that use a percussion cap or flintlock do not fall under this.
 
pastera said:
A 209 primer is not fixed ammunition.
Not sure where this started but there is no support for it
Click to expand...
From GOAL:
  • SECTION 15. Creates a separate definition for “Antique Firearm”. Clarifies where a license is required to possess antiques/muzzle loaders. Any that use a modern primer may be considered a modern firearm.
 
read the Goal summary, some confusion caused by the law, but also some by what looks like a lack of proof reading. This is one of the bigger examples, just so happens I was looking for info on mags

Frames and Receivers

  • There is nothing in the new law that references 80% lowers, it simply refers to “unfinished” frames and receivers.
  • All frames and/or receivers (unfinished or otherwise) that could be considered a copy or duplicate of an enumerated Assault Weapon must have been lawfully possessed and registered in Massachusetts on or before July 19, 2016.
  • Any frames or receivers (unfinished or otherwise), not on the enumerated ban list, but meet the new features test must be possessed and registered in Massachusetts on or before August 1, 2024.
  • Private builds for any firearm that would fall under the new semi-automatic Assault Style Firearm definitions are prohibited after August 1, 2024
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Large Capacity Feeding Devices

  • There is nothing in the new law that references 80% lowers, it simply refers to “unfinished” frames and receivers.
  • All frames and/or receivers (unfinished or otherwise) that could be considered a copy or duplicate of an enumerated Assault Weapon must have been lawfully possessed and registered in Massachusetts on or before July 19, 2016.
  • Any frames or receivers (unfinished or otherwise), not on the enumerated ban list, but meet the new features test must be possessed and registered in Massachusetts on or before August 1, 2024.
  • Private builds for any firearm that would fall under the new semi-automatic Assault Style Firearm definitions are prohibited after August 1, 2024
Click to expand...
 

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