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The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885
- Thread starter GOAL
- Start date
This guy is an absolute tool. He makes us all stupider.
If he actually read what the changes are, and actually tried to understand what they do, it'd be obvious to him that they're not "walking back" anything. They fixed two typos. That's it.
One of them was a correction to a reference, it should have been 131-3/4, but they wrote 128A. It was obvious from context that it should have been 131-3/4.
The other was to change the 18 month future effective date from Section 75 to Section 74.
Section 75 is about recording of crime guns (no reason for an 18 month delay)
Section 74 is about the training requirement (huge reason to delay it so the new curriculum and systems can be set up)
The 18 month delay for section 38 (about training of licensing authorities with respect to licensing) was in the original, too.
Actual effect:
Existing training can go on as is until April 23, 2026. Nothing changes until that date. That should be plenty of time for the state police to come up with the material and the CJIS to come up with some "certificate portal".
If, on that date, the state hasn't promulgated the requirements of the "live firearms trainings", students can take the new curriculum with all the new requirements without live fire, and can continue to do so until the state comes up with the "live firearms trainings" stuff.
That's it.
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EJFudd
NES Member
In his defense, GOAL (in the form of Jim Wallace) is running around making the same claims that this was a major back-step by the state and big victory for us.
In his defense, GOAL (in the form of Jim Wallace) is running around making the same claims that this was a major back-step by the state and big victory for us.
Yea, and that’s idiotic too. GOAL should be embarrassed that they’re publishing things without reading carefully.
And that tool should know better than to repeat something without confirming and understanding it.
It took me five minutes to understand they were fixing typos by looking at the source material; I expect at least that from GOAL and guys like CCGW guy who claim to be an authority and who have a big audience.
EJFudd
NES Member
The embarrassing part is not that Toby and Jim got it wrong all over YouTube.
![[slap]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/025.gif "Slap [slap]")
The embarrassing part is how few folks recognized the truth of the matter and called them out for it.
Doesn't give me a lot of confidence in those supposedly leading and supporting our side.
Buck F
NES Member
Just received this:
From: Firearms Licensing (POL) <Firearms.Licensing@pol.state.ma.us>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2024 12:03 PM
Subject: Firearms Legislation Update for Instructors
Good Morning,
As some of you may know, on September 16, 2024, the Governor signed, An Act Making Appropriations for the Fiscal Year 2024 to Provide for Supplementing Certain Existing Appropriations and for Certain other Activities and Projects, which amended the effective date of section 74 (BFS Course) of the firearms law. This means that the new requirements for the BFS Course will not become effective until 18 months following the Act taking effect. Until that time, local licensing authorities should continue to accept and process applications for FID cards and LTC’s in the ordinary course, consistent with current law.
Any person who has been issued a FID or LTC on or before August 1, 2024, will not be required to complete the new BFS requirements or the live fire requirement when the law takes effect, including when seeking to renew the card or license, pursuant to the registration Act.
However, individuals who apply for an FID or LTC after August 1, 2024, but before the Act becomes effective, may be issued an FID or LTC if the applicant is eligible under current law. Individuals issued an FID or LTC during this period (August 1, 2024 - effective date of the Act) will be subject to the new requirements when they seek to renew their FID or LTC. Please note, there is no current approved course that fulfills the requirements of the new legislation at this time.
We are diligently working with EOPSS, MPTC, and CJIS on course requirements and will update you, as an instructor, as we move forward.
Thank you for your patience as we navigate this process together.
Sincerely,
Kristin
Kristin M. Ryan
Firearms Licensing
Massachusetts State Police
470 Worcester Road
Framingham, MA 01702
508-820-2299
Firearms.licensing@pol.state.ma.us
From: Firearms Licensing (POL) <Firearms.Licensing@pol.state.ma.us>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2024 12:03 PM
Subject: Firearms Legislation Update for Instructors
Good Morning,
As some of you may know, on September 16, 2024, the Governor signed, An Act Making Appropriations for the Fiscal Year 2024 to Provide for Supplementing Certain Existing Appropriations and for Certain other Activities and Projects, which amended the effective date of section 74 (BFS Course) of the firearms law. This means that the new requirements for the BFS Course will not become effective until 18 months following the Act taking effect. Until that time, local licensing authorities should continue to accept and process applications for FID cards and LTC’s in the ordinary course, consistent with current law.
Any person who has been issued a FID or LTC on or before August 1, 2024, will not be required to complete the new BFS requirements or the live fire requirement when the law takes effect, including when seeking to renew the card or license, pursuant to the registration Act.
However, individuals who apply for an FID or LTC after August 1, 2024, but before the Act becomes effective, may be issued an FID or LTC if the applicant is eligible under current law. Individuals issued an FID or LTC during this period (August 1, 2024 - effective date of the Act) will be subject to the new requirements when they seek to renew their FID or LTC. Please note, there is no current approved course that fulfills the requirements of the new legislation at this time.
We are diligently working with EOPSS, MPTC, and CJIS on course requirements and will update you, as an instructor, as we move forward.
Thank you for your patience as we navigate this process together.
Sincerely,
Kristin
Kristin M. Ryan
Firearms Licensing
Massachusetts State Police
470 Worcester Road
Framingham, MA 01702
508-820-2299
Firearms.licensing@pol.state.ma.us
alan226
NES Member
This is like bizzaro world. They will issue you an LTC or FID, but when you go to renew it you need to take the new course.
WTF
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EJFudd
NES Member
The mindless, nonsensical insanity of Moonbatty Massachusetts.
What about this section where it states that anyone who obtains their LTC or FID before the implementation of live fire training is also exempt. My LTC was issued on 8/5. I'm gonna be super pissed off if I have to spend hundreds of dollars to get a new certificate and have to sit through 8 hours of new training.
Attachments
When you renew you’ll need to have the “new cerficate.” That is if this holds….
Yeah I understand that. But what about the section in the law that I highlighted that says if you have have an LTC or fid before the implementation of live fire training you are also exempt.
mothybee
NES Member
Massachusetts "Where liberty came to die"
It's implementation of the requirement. That's not the same as availability of the training, or implementation of the training.
This is more than a throwaway line.
I already posted about this over on that dupe-a-licious thread about this email, but six years is a long time in terms of current 2A jurisprudence. Lots of things are likely to change about this law. I bet there's a strong chance nobody will ever end up taking this Awesome New Training, even on renewal.
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Hey so I have found a Ar stripped lower that was in the state on 8/1 that I want to buy to build in the future. But I am NO gunsmith. So I was wondering if I end up purchasing it would I be able at a later date have a gunsmith assemble the lower? Or is that no good? I've never built one before so I don't know how successful I would be at assembling it. Also I have been hearing that after 10/23 if you have a strip lower you can build an AR pistol Is that true?
Anyone who can put together Legos can build an AR, especially if you get a complete upper. You need a pin pinch, hammer, and a screwdriver.
And yes you are correct RE 10/23 unless it was built into a rifle before, so it’s a good idea to wait.
Legally I understand this completely.
However, from a practical standpoint I don’t understand how it works out.
How can you know how the FFL classified it on the 4473? I know what they’re supposed do, but that doesn’t mean they did it right. There’s some dealers that will (or would/have) FA10 a stripped lower as a rifle.
But let’s say the FFL didn’t FA10 it and is was listed as “other” on the 4473. Unless you FA10 it as a rifle, there’s no record at all as to what it “is”.
And in states that have no recording/ registration system, what does “used to be a rifle” even mean?
I hope the state would not go so far into the weeds to prosecute somebody for making a pistol from a FA10'd lower registered as a rifle.
Not fear mongering but...
One great reason why I never FA10'd my Noveske Lowers. They are pre Healey 2016 legal and post 10/23 legal. The best of both worlds and worth their weight in gold.
Truely get out of jail free lowers.
If you need a gunsmith to put together a lower you probably shouldn't own an AR.
I'm a borderline retard with gunsmithy stuff and I built mine out pretty easily. It's far easier to deal with than other firearms and there are even cheat tools invented to do the thing. All that aside most shops with service staff will be able to assemble your rifle from parts in pretty short order and there's no legal boundaries for that.
You need to stop inventing problems that don't exist. Just stop. Free yourself from the faggotry, because none of that shit matters.
Only if they're doing it as part of a sale of that firearm. Technically it's still just a repair if the dealer didn't sell it to the person. There are a lot of gunsmiths that only run under an 01.
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FFL is required only if there is a commercial aspect to assembly(you pay for it).
That said, I've always told newcomers to firearms: join a club and MAKE FRIENDS! I've met some of the nicest and most helpful folks at gun clubs. If you mention that you need help, I am sure someone at the club will offer to assist. Bring parts to the club, a few tools and you will go home with a complete lower!
My favorite instructional videos:
DIY AR-15 Build: Introduction, Parts and Tools Required
1 of 8 in the series DIY AR-15 BuildDIY AR-15 BuildDIY AR-15 Build: Introduction, Parts and Tools RequiredDIY AR-15 Build:... View Article
www.itstactical.com
Just buy all the special tools and you'll do well. Or else you'll have lots of scratches and tiny parts flying all over the place.
If that’s the case, why are there so many warnings out there about helping others mill out their 80% lowers? Is that all nonsense?
And… isn’t this:
a “commercial aspect”?
