The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

40 Creedmoor fan said:
... I've always told newcomers to firearms: join a club and MAKE FRIENDS! I've met some of the nicest and most helpful folks at gun clubs. If you mention that you need help, I am sure someone at the club will offer to assist. Bring parts to the club, a few tools and you will go home with a complete lower!
Click to expand...
That will definitely raise some eyebrows. Not sure if they allow you to bring guns into the clubhouse. Parts, maybe. I can't imagine actually working on a gun would go over too well. Would have to meet elsewhere, and asking someone to come to your house and work on guns is kind of awkward. I've connected with people here on NES, and had some success with various things, but mostly had to struggle on my own.
 
Coyote33 said:
That will definitely raise some eyebrows. Not sure if they allow you to bring guns into the clubhouse. Parts, maybe. I can't imagine actually working on a gun would go over too well. Would have to meet elsewhere, and asking someone to come to your house and work on guns is kind of awkward. I've connected with people here on NES, and had some success with various things, but mostly had to struggle on my own.
Click to expand...
Whatever fudd club that is is one I wouldn't bother being a member of...
 
milktree said:
Legally I understand this completely.

However, from a practical standpoint I don’t understand how it works out.

How can you know how the FFL classified it on the 4473? I know what they’re supposed do, but that doesn’t mean they did it right. There’s some dealers that will (or would/have) FA10 a stripped lower as a rifle.

But let’s say the FFL didn’t FA10 it and is was listed as “other” on the 4473. Unless you FA10 it as a rifle, there’s no record at all as to what it “is”.

And in states that have no recording/ registration system, what does “used to be a rifle” even mean?
Click to expand...
Isn’t the whole “used to be a rifle” a federal thing and only with regards to manufactured complete rifles? Why do stripped lowers and FA10 nonsense even matter?
 
Coyote33 said:
That will definitely raise some eyebrows. Not sure if they allow you to bring guns into the clubhouse. Parts, maybe. I can't imagine actually working on a gun would go over too well. Would have to meet elsewhere, and asking someone to come to your house and work on guns is kind of awkward. I've connected with people here on NES, and had some success with various things, but mostly had to struggle on my own.
Click to expand...
I have never completely assembled a firearm from parts at the range, but I have definately helped change parts at a couple clubs for people I only knew from here and I have had some newbees over to the house to help fix things. Usually only had them by the house after I had met them a time or two.
 
milktree said:
If that’s the case, why are there so many warnings out there about helping others mill out their 80% lowers? Is that all nonsense?
Click to expand...
I am no 80% expert(I'm all thumbs when if comes to work like that) but am pretty sure you can help others as long as you're not compensated for it.
This is one of those scary stories that some folks like to repeat without thinking. Just like buying a firearm as a gift for someone is a straw purchase(it is not)
 
EJFudd said:
In his defense, GOAL (in the form of Jim Wallace) is running around making the same claims that this was a major back-step by the state and big victory for us. 🤔
Click to expand...
I actually asked both Derek Hubbel and GOAL on their Instagram feeds if the budget bill was just fixing a typo in Section 159 of the bill by changing Section 75 to Section 74 and was met with silence. Of course it was a great opportunity for GOAL to claim that they had forced this walk back by their lawsuit.
 
Picton said:
This is more than a throwaway line.

I already posted about this over on that dupe-a-licious thread about this email, but six years is a long time in terms of current 2A jurisprudence. Lots of things are likely to change about this law. I bet there's a strong chance nobody will ever end up taking this Awesome New Training, even on renewal.
Click to expand...
I also think this is a strong possibility. I also highly doubt that many FFL's will be prosecuted for selling long guns and shotguns that are not on a roster that does not exist however I fully expect the big box stores (Cabelas, etc) to stop sales and I also suspect that the AG has the letters already typed for NH/CT/RI stores that they cannot sell long guns not on the "rosters".
 
novo said:
Hey so I have found a Ar stripped lower that was in the state on 8/1 that I want to buy to build in the future. But I am NO gunsmith. So I was wondering if I end up purchasing it would I be able at a later date have a gunsmith assemble the lower? Or is that no good? I've never built one before so I don't know how successful I would be at assembling it. Also I have been hearing that after 10/23 if you have a strip lower you can build an AR pistol Is that true?
Click to expand...
Just to make you feel better I have talked 2 people into building AR's since Covid and have been part of the conversations held with 2 others. All 3 of these people built their AR's by themselves and the 4th built the lower and bought a fully assembled upper for it. The ONLY help that any of them needed was putting the barrel on the upper. For some reason the idea of using a torque wrench intimidates some people.

Balding an AR15 is very easy. If you want a little more of a challenge try an AR10.
 
Coyote33 said:
That will definitely raise some eyebrows. Not sure if they allow you to bring guns into the clubhouse. Parts, maybe. I can't imagine actually working on a gun would go over too well. Would have to meet elsewhere, and asking someone to come to your house and work on guns is kind of awkward. I've connected with people here on NES, and had some success with various things, but mostly had to struggle on my own.
Click to expand...
One of my clubs on the Cape actually has a dedicated "gunsmithing area".
 
Coyote33 said:
That will definitely raise some eyebrows. Not sure if they allow you to bring guns into the clubhouse. Parts, maybe. I can't imagine actually working on a gun would go over too well. Would have to meet elsewhere, and asking someone to come to your house and work on guns is kind of awkward. I've connected with people here on NES, and had some success with various things, but mostly had to struggle on my own.
Click to expand...
At the new member orientation when I joined my current club, the officer giving the presentation mentioned that many members used the main area of the clubhouse to clean their firearms in an area with plenty of room. YMMV
 
spt_1955 said:
I also think this is a strong possibility. I also highly doubt that many FFL's will be prosecuted for selling long guns and shotguns that are not on a roster that does not exist however I fully expect the big box stores (Cabelas, etc) to stop sales and I also suspect that the AG has the letters already typed for NH/CT/RI stores that they cannot sell long guns not on the "rosters".
Click to expand...

This is irrelevant. Mass. laws apply to Mass. dealers and have absolutely zero bearing on what NH/CT/RI FFLs can legally do.

If the rifle or shotgun is legal to OWN in Mass, even under the new laws, it's 100% legal for a non Mass. FFL to transfer to a Mass. resident.

All the new stupid overly inclusive "assault-style firearm" stuff still applies, because that crap is about ownership. But all the new §123(o) crap is irrelevant.
 
souper said:
Isn’t the whole “used to be a rifle” a federal thing and only with regards to manufactured complete rifles? Why do stripped lowers and FA10 nonsense even matter?
Click to expand...

That's exactly the question.

My understanding (subject to correction, hopefully with citations) is that
(a) A lower that has never been assembled as anything is "any other weapon" or "other" or something like that
(b) Pistols, including AR lowers that are built into pistols, can be made into rifles without any problems (but not SBRs without ATF approval)
(c) Rifles cannot be made into pistols, and can only be made into SBRs with permission from the ATF and paying the stamp.
(d) If a lower was "registered" as a rifle via the FA10 system, the feds would find out and you'd get in trouble for violating (c)

But if it was never reported via FA10 or it happened in a free state where such nonsense doesn't exist, (and you didn't brag about it on FacePlant) I can't think of how anyone would know if an AR pistol made from a stripped lower (or 80% lower) had ever been a rifle.
 
milktree said:
This is irrelevant. Mass. laws apply to Mass. dealers and have absolutely zero bearing on what NH/CT/RI FFLs can legally do.

If the rifle or shotgun is legal to OWN in Mass, even under the new laws, it's 100% legal for a non Mass. FFL to transfer to a Mass. resident.

All the new stupid overly inclusive "assault-style firearm" stuff still applies, because that crap is about ownership. But all the new §123(o) crap is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
That's a good point, legal to own is different from legal to sell. Open up yet another reason to bring MA business to NH. Cheap booze, vapes, and guns, MA just keeps helping the economy in NH [wink]
 
milktree said:
That's exactly the question.

My understanding (subject to correction, hopefully with citations) is that
(a) A lower that has never been assembled as anything is "any other weapon" or "other" or something like that
Click to expand...

It’s right on a 4473. Look it up.

“OTHER firearm (e.g. frame or receiver, etc)”


There’s no logging of a lower through an FFL as a rifle or shotgun.


IMG_0165.jpeg
 
milktree said:
That's exactly the question.

My understanding (subject to correction, hopefully with citations) is that
(a) A lower that has never been assembled as anything is "any other weapon" or "other" or something like that
(b) Pistols, including AR lowers that are built into pistols, can be made into rifles without any problems (but not SBRs without ATF approval)
(c) Rifles cannot be made into pistols, and can only be made into SBRs with permission from the ATF and paying the stamp.
(d) If a lower was "registered" as a rifle via the FA10 system, the feds would find out and you'd get in trouble for violating (c)

But if it was never reported via FA10 or it happened in a free state where such nonsense doesn't exist, (and you didn't brag about it on FacePlant) I can't think of how anyone would know if an AR pistol made from a stripped lower (or 80% lower) had ever been a rifle.
Click to expand...
I agree except for d as I don’t think the feds give two shits what someone entered into a FA10. A virgin lower also was never sold as a complete rifle so it should be a moot point anyway.

Can I lawfully make a rifle into a pistol without registering that firearm?​

No. A firearm that was originally a rifle would be classified as a “weapon made from a rifle” if it has either a barrel less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches. If an individual wishes to make an NFA firearm, they must first submit ATF Form 1 (Application to Make and Register a Firearm), pay a $200.00 making tax, and receive approval of the application from ATF before converting the firearm.
[18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3); 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(3)-(4)]
Click to expand...
 
souper said:
I agree except for d as I don’t think the feds give two shits what someone entered into a FA10. A virgin lower also was never sold as a complete rifle so it should be a moot point anyway.


Can I lawfully make a rifle into a pistol without registering that firearm?​

No. A firearm that was originally a rifle would be classified as a “weapon made from a rifle” if it has either a barrel less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches. If an individual wishes to make an NFA firearm, they must first submit ATF Form 1 (Application to Make and Register a Firearm), pay a $200.00 making tax, and receive approval of the application from ATF before converting the firearm.
[18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3); 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(3)-(4)]
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

OK, I think this might be my misunderstanding: "was originally" doesn't mean "has ever been" or "was first" I thought an "other" stopped being an "other" and became once and forever whatever you first turn it into.

i.e.: An "other" is always "an 'other' originally", regardless of if you make it into a rifle first and then change your mind and turn it into a pistol. It was, and always will be "originally an other". This is why the FA10 system is irrelevant, because even if you "register" it as a rifle first, it just doesn't matter.

Is that about right?
 
spt_1955 said:
I also suspect that the AG has the letters already typed for NH/CT/RI stores that they cannot sell long guns not on the "rosters".
Click to expand...
That's cute because that's not what the law says, so she'd have to pen something out of whole cloth that's worse than the 2016 "press conference" None of those dealers are licensed under S122 nor operate in mass so none of that list bullshit applies to them.
 
milktree said:
That's exactly the question.

My understanding (subject to correction, hopefully with citations) is that
(a) A lower that has never been assembled as anything is "any other weapon" or "other" or something like that
(b) Pistols, including AR lowers that are built into pistols, can be made into rifles without any problems (but not SBRs without ATF approval)
(c) Rifles cannot be made into pistols, and can only be made into SBRs with permission from the ATF and paying the stamp.
(d) If a lower was "registered" as a rifle via the FA10 system, the feds would find out and you'd get in trouble for violating (c)

But if it was never reported via FA10 or it happened in a free state where such nonsense doesn't exist, (and you didn't brag about it on FacePlant) I can't think of how anyone would know if an AR pistol made from a stripped lower (or 80% lower) had ever been a rifle.
Click to expand...

The problem you're talking about doesn't exist and hasn't existed for a long time. There's nothing illegal about reverting a gun built off an "other" to a pistol. The whole point of them changing the designation was to remove the ambiguity so that if somebody did build a pistol or rifle it didn't matter. An AR lower other is almost a handgun for ATF purposes. You must be 21 to buy an Other. Once it crossed the counter as an other it's basically bisexual from birth at that point. 🤣 it essentially eliminates the confusion.

This "problem" was only ever a problem when a bare or partial lower could originate as a title 1 rifle and be legally sold to 18 year olds. That hasn't been the case for well over a decade, maybe 20 yrs at this point? Maybe way longer. There was a time when you would buy lowers that were demarcated as a pistol lower and you would have to be 21 plus because it would effectively cross the counter as a handgun. Nearly everything else was defaulted to being declared a rifle regardless of its state of existence. Those days are ancient history.

Bottom line is that most humans who have a lower who crossed the counter as an "other" effectively have something that they are free to convert back and forth as they wish. The feds are not coming to get you. (They never gave a shit about this anyways outside of ffl operations anyways. )
 
drgrant said:
The problem you're talking about doesn't exist and hasn't existed for a long time. There's nothing illegal about reverting a gun built off an "other" to a pistol. The whole point of them changing the designation was to remove the ambiguity so that if somebody did build a pistol or rifle it didn't matter. An AR lower other is almost a handgun for ATF purposes. You must be 21 to buy an Other. Once it crossed the counter as an other it's basically bisexual from birth at that point. 🤣 it essentially eliminates the confusion.

This "problem" was only ever a problem when a bare or partial lower could originate as a title 1 rifle and be legally sold to 18 year olds. That hasn't been the case for well over a decade, maybe 20 yrs at this point? Maybe way longer. There was a time when you would buy lowers that were demarcated as a pistol lower and you would have to be 21 plus because it would effectively cross the counter as a handgun. Nearly everything else was defaulted to being declared a rifle regardless of its state of existence. Those days are ancient history.

Bottom line is that most humans who have a lower who crossed the counter as an "other" effectively have something that they are free to convert back and forth as they wish. The feds are not coming to get you. (They never gave a shit about this anyways outside of ffl operations anyways. )
Click to expand...

Thank you. I wasn't aware of this history.
 
drgrant said:
The problem you're talking about doesn't exist and hasn't existed for a long time. There's nothing illegal about reverting a gun built off an "other" to a pistol. The whole point of them changing the designation was to remove the ambiguity so that if somebody did build a pistol or rifle it didn't matter. An AR lower other is almost a handgun for ATF purposes. You must be 21 to buy an Other. Once it crossed the counter as an other it's basically bisexual from birth at that point. 🤣 it essentially eliminates the confusion.

This "problem" was only ever a problem when a bare or partial lower could originate as a title 1 rifle and be legally sold to 18 year olds. That hasn't been the case for well over a decade, maybe 20 yrs at this point? Maybe way longer. There was a time when you would buy lowers that were demarcated as a pistol lower and you would have to be 21 plus because it would effectively cross the counter as a handgun. Nearly everything else was defaulted to being declared a rifle regardless of its state of existence. Those days are ancient history.

Bottom line is that most humans who have a lower who crossed the counter as an "other" effectively have something that they are free to convert back and forth as they wish. The feds are not coming to get you. (They never gave a shit about this anyways outside of ffl operations anyways. )
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying, I wasn’t aware that if you built a stripped lower (4473’d as other) into a rifle first, it could later be made a pistol.
 
milktree said:
No.

Out of state it must be a rifle or a shotgun.

A stripped lower is neither, it’s an “other”

Handguns and “other” must be transferred by an in-state FFL.
Click to expand...
^ This

There is a specific exemption for rifles or shotguns with respect to purchase in states other than where you reside, not a prohibition on handguns.
 

Similar threads

Check out TSUSA @ the Great American Outdoor Show
Replies
0
Views
35
TargetSportsUSA
TargetSportsUSA
Overheard at the airport
4 5 6
Replies
154
Views
3K
dcmdon
dcmdon
Post in the correct forums
2 3 4
Replies
96
Views
2K
StevieP
StevieP
The H&K P7 M13 is Coming Back? The P7 Pro at SHOT Show 2025!
2
Replies
59
Views
582
Tartakovsky
Tartakovsky
H&K suppressor sights
Replies
0
Views
37
Sam P
S
Back
Top Bottom