The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[VTski4x4]

Well, I took the plunge. I risked life and limb to shoot some evil black rifles at HSC yesterday. I even shot evil preban extra killy magazines. I shot a lot. Multiple rifles. Guess what? The world didn't end. I didn't leave in cuffs. No firefights with black helicopters embossed with Maura's face on the nose. It was very scary, but by sheer dumb luck, I escaped with my life.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Exactly. No Licensee aka FFL can bring in anymore AR lowers. We are going to see many more duallies setting up shops outside Ma borders.

until the ban is overturned, the market plummets, and Reptile goes broke.

 

[DJBrad]

An 07 can manufacture and possess banned firearms for sale to exempt persons within the state or for interstate commerce.
A private person can apply for a serial number to produce a non-banned firearm - while the exact regulations here are yet to come the state very well knows that to ban privately made firearms as a class is a non-starter.

How is an 07 exempt from 121(d),(e), (f)?

121(f) clearly states manufacture and 131M(e) shows the only parties exempt which is only for transfers or possession.

 

[Picton]

Well, I took the plunge. I risked life and limb to shoot some evil black rifles at HSC yesterday. I even shot evil preban extra killy magazines. I shot a lot. Multiple rifles. Guess what? The world didn't end. I didn't leave in cuffs. No firefights with black helicopters embossed with Maura's face on the nose. It was very scary, but by sheer dumb luck, I escaped with my life.

...how... how can this be?

My government has told me that those Evil Black Rifles are responsible for every bad thing we have in this world. Pray tell, how on earth did you prevent yourself from using that rifle to kill a bunch of kids?

I didn't think that was possible...

 

[DJBrad]

until the ban is overturned, the market plummets, and Reptile goes broke.

Hell freezes over you mean?

 

[MaroonedinMA]

Well, I took the plunge. I risked life and limb to shoot some evil black rifles at HSC yesterday. I even shot evil preban extra killy magazines. I shot a lot. Multiple rifles. Guess what? The world didn't end. I didn't leave in cuffs. No firefights with black helicopters embossed with Maura's face on the nose. It was very scary, but by sheer dumb luck, I escaped with my life.

No way you pull that off twice. You'd be vaporized within five minutes of crossing your town line. I read about it on Infowars, or maybe one of Reptile's posts, I dunno. Anyway, the main point is that you should be scared.

 

[straightshooterjake]

Where does the Smith FPC fall with its folding action/barrel?

If it cannot be fired from the folded position then it is no different than a takedown barrel

The FPC has a pistol grip and barrel shroud, so it is an assault style firearm (ASF) just based on those features. It folds where the barrel meets the receiver, so I would agree that it is really a takedown rifle and not a folding stock.

It is not clear whether a version of this rifle could be made with a fore-end stock rather than a shroud. A configuration like that might not be an ASF, but currently no such configuration exists.

 

[DJBrad]

Well, I took the plunge. I risked life and limb to shoot some evil black rifles at HSC yesterday. I even shot evil preban extra killy magazines. I shot a lot. Multiple rifles. Guess what? The world didn't end. I didn't leave in cuffs. No firefights with black helicopters embossed with Maura's face on the nose. It was very scary, but by sheer dumb luck, I escaped with my life.

If from Vermont, I guarantee you must’ve just crossed the Ma border into Satan’s kingdom. Remember out in Western Ma there are only dragons.

 

[pastera]

The FPC has a pistol grip and barrel shroud, so it is an assault style firearm (ASF) just based on those features. It folds where the barrel meets the receiver, so I would agree that it is really a takedown rifle and not a folding stock.

It is not clear whether a version of this rifle could be made with a fore-end stock rather than a shroud. A configuration like that might not be an ASF, but currently no such configuration exists.

Concur - it would need the shroud changed to a fore-stock and the threading deleted.
But when deleting the shroud you would need to install a mount for a front sight - way too much cost for a crappy gun to begin with.
Could be done by an industrious 07 FFL but for what audience?

 

[straightshooterjake]

Fixed mag rifles suck. I know that is not the main point of this thread. But since people are discussing fixed mags, I think it is worth making that point.

To be more fair, there are two fixed mag rifles that I know of that don't suck. The Garand and the SKS are both pretty satisfactory with their fixed mags. It is not a coincidence that these rifles were originally conceived as fixed magazine designs, and their actions are very accessible without removing the magazine. They still have the basic disadvantages of fixed magazines, but at least jams and malfunctions are not too difficult to manage.

I have helped a beginner clear a double feed in a fixed mag AR15, and it was ridiculous. The correct way to fix this jam would have been to forcibly remove the magazine, but of course that was not possible. As you would expect with a double feed, the bolt was halfway back, so the rifle could not be disassembled. It took several minutes of fiddling through the ejection port to get it running. Do not recommend.

 

[DJBrad]

Concur - it would need the shroud changed to a fore-stock and the threading deleted.
But when deleting the shroud you would need to install a mount for a front sight - way too much cost for a crappy gun to begin with.
Could be done by an industrious 07 FFL but for what audience?

Semantics. Does a forestock, forend, or hand rest shield the user’s hand from being burned? Doesn’t matter if it’s called a shroud. It partially encircles the barrel. No bueno.

 

[pastera]

Semantics. Does a forestock, forend, or hand rest shield the user’s hand from being burned? Doesn’t matter if it’s called a shroud. It partially encircles the barrel. No bueno.

The key word is encircles
A fore stock doesn't encircle the barrel
So while it's a bs distinction it is still a distinction.

 

[DJBrad]

The key word is encircles
A fore stock doesn't encircle the barrel
So while it's a bs distinction it is still a distinction.

Partially encircles to be precise. That’s what a fore-end does and it is often made of heat resistant materials to protect the shooter’s hand. No beuno. Distinction without a difference.

 

[Picton]

Partially encircles to be precise. That’s what a fore-end does and it is often made of heat resistant materials to protect the shooter’s hand. No beuno. Distinction without a difference.

Yep. It's all so childish and stupid.

It all becomes much simpler when you just decide it's a fantasy written by morons. Then, you can ignore it all with a clear conscience.

 

[VTski4x4]

If from Vermont, I guarantee you must’ve just crossed the Ma border into Satan’s kingdom. Remember out in Western Ma there are only dragons.

No dragons were fought this time. Username comes from college when I joined this shitshow.

 

[VTski4x4]

No way you pull that off twice. You'd be vaporized within five minutes of crossing your town line. I read about it on Infowars, or maybe one of Reptile's posts, I dunno. Anyway, the main point is that you should be scared.

The adrenaline from my adventures had my butt puckering for hours after my return. I fear I may not have the fortitude to attempt it again.

 

[DJBrad]

Yep. It's all so childish and stupid.

It all becomes much simpler when you just decide it's a fantasy written by morons. Then, you can ignore it all with a clear conscience.

You know I am being intentional with my posts about this shit bill. There are no legal carve outs for in state gun shops, ffls, dealers, or manufacturers.

As to us free men will do what conscience dictates and live in peace.

 

[headednorth]

Just realizing this puts a damper on cold weather carry. WIth mag grandfathering gone, whats the point of carrying a G17 or a 92FS? Pant shitting aside, figure the only reason people carry is to defend themselves, and if that happens the PD will take your shit and, if I understand correctly, it doesnt matter when your mag was born anymore.

"Hi cap" is "hi cap" to them now? Whats the deal for pre-bans?

 

[pastera]

Partially encircles to be precise. That’s what a fore-end does and it is often made of heat resistant materials to protect the shooter’s hand. No beuno. Distinction without a difference.

Encircles means completely around the circumference (360° around the radius)
Partially means it does not need to enclose the entire length of the barrel.
A fore-end doesn't encircle the barrel - it sits below. If it covers only the lower half diameter (180° or less) the state would have an extremely difficult time to argue that it encircles the barrel.

Not a distinction without a difference - words have meaning and a fore-end is not a shroud.

 

[MAJoe]

Just realizing this puts a damper on cold weather carry. WIth mag grandfathering gone, whats the point of carrying a G17 or a 92FS? Pant shitting aside, figure the only reason people carry is to defend themselves, and if that happens the PD will take your shit and, if I understand correctly, it doesnt matter when your mag was born anymore.

"Hi cap" is "hi cap" to them now? Whats the deal for pre-bans?

I’d have to check, but my quick assumption is that carrying a preban where you shouldn’t isn’t as bad as possessing a large cap feeding device. They’re separate issues, but both will screw you.

 

[EJFudd]

Agreed but as far as I see in the law no one can take a chunk of metal, or a partially finished lower, and manufacturer it at all. No ffl, no 07, etc can do this in Ma.

I’m talking strictly within Ma to be more clear.

Toby (CGW) and other MA shops are selling fixed-magazine lowers and fixed-magazine AR's as we speak. They were manufactured that way... i.e., to be fixed-magazine lowers and AR's. Perhaps I am missing your point?

 

[blindndead]

Well, I took the plunge. I risked life and limb to shoot some evil black rifles at HSC yesterday. I even shot evil preban extra killy magazines. I shot a lot. Multiple rifles. Guess what? The world didn't end. I didn't leave in cuffs. No firefights with black helicopters embossed with Maura's face on the nose. It was very scary, but by sheer dumb luck, I escaped with my life.

The Horror!

 

[mousegunfan]

Did this law ban carry in state buildings, property. What about town property or the MBTA? I know it was at one point but not sure if it was in the final bill?

 

[headednorth]

I’d have to check, but my quick assumption is that carrying a preban where you shouldn’t isn’t as bad as possessing a large cap feeding device. They’re separate issues, but both will screw you.

So walking around with a new G17 mag vs walking around with a pre-ban G17 mag are two different things?

 

[MAJoe]

So walking around with a new G17 mag vs walking around with a pre-ban G17 mag are two different things?

Yes.

Edit: No

 

[BigGreen2000]

If from Vermont, I guarantee you must’ve just crossed the Ma border into Satan’s kingdom. Remember out in Western Ma there are only dragons.

 

[pastera]

How is an 07 exempt from 121(d),(e), (f)?

121(f) clearly states manufacture and 131M(e) shows the only parties exempt which is only for transfers or possession.

Did you mean something other than Chapt 140 section 121?
There is no section 121 subsections (d)-(f)

Section 121D has an exemption for federally licensed manufacturers to possess a 3d printer or CNC designed and marketed to produce firearms
Section 121E is data reporting
Section 121F is standards for issuing a license

Section 131M(e) excludes manufacturers from ASF possession but not dealers so no dealer in Mass can sell to a police department or officer even though it is legal for the departments and officers to possess them. This will be solved through selective prosecution so that "approved" dealers will be allowed to supply the state and cities.

 

[pastera]

I’d have to check, but my quick assumption is that carrying a preban where you shouldn’t isn’t as bad as possessing a large cap feeding device. They’re separate issues, but both will screw you.

A preban is a large capacity feeding device - the only exemption is for possession in certain places and unloaded/locked transport between those locations.

If you are going to carry a mag >10 rounds it doesn't matter how old it is.

 

[Abe Froman]

Not really on topic, not really off topic.
I've been thinking lately about how there are many things MA regulates that have exceptions for when you are on private property, requiring a DL for example. It perfectly legal to drive on private property without a DL, even to do so well under 16 years old.

Not 100% true. In MA, if you've never had a license to drive or your license to drive is expired, then you can legally drive on private property including your own (as long as the public does not have access as licensees or invitees, such as in a mall parking lot). However, if your license to drive has been suspended or revoked, then you are not allowed to operate a motor vehicle anywhere in the Commonwealth, including on your own property and it's an arrestable criminal offense.

 

[DJBrad]

Did you mean something other than Chapt 140 section 121?
There is no section 121 subsections (d)-(f)

Section 121D has an exemption for federally licensed manufacturers to possess a 3d printer or CNC designed and marketed to produce firearms
Section 121E is data reporting
Section 121F is standards for issuing a license

Section 131M(e) excludes manufacturers from ASF possession but not dealers so no dealer in Mass can sell to a police department or officer even though it is legal for the departments and officers to possess them. This will be solved through selective prosecution so that "approved" dealers will be allowed to supply the state and cities.

No. The definition of ASF in 121.