The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[hawkinhunter95]

Dude....this thread is proof that people in MA just work themselves up into full blown nuts nazi shit......and start thinking of turning their guns in. Before the law is even signed.

JFC they aren't coming for your shit on 8/2 if they do...good luck to them.

Lucky if they even have their little registration database sorted out in 6 months time.

I have a much different situation than most that is why Im Concerned. My firearms are gonna be stored at a relatives house who have a LTC while I go into the army. I don't want them to get pinched while I'm away.

 

[duza9999]

Lots of actons will no longer be legal whether carrying your prebans, dealers carrying their normal cap mags, carrying in town hall, etc. But ownership for non dealer/non LEO seems almost uneffected.

The cases where I can see a possession problem with existing lawful objects:

• LCFDs by non 07 FFL MA dealers. All MA dealers were exempt. 07s can still possess solely to sell of state. all other FFLs now have illegal mags and the moment the law takes effect, they are felonies
• registered machine guns that are parts such as bolt, sear, etc. These appear to fall into "automatic parts" and are not lawful to possess. This is interesting because these parts are federally machine guns and worth thousands or tens of thousands of dollars.
• post dealer samples of same "automatic parts" that are NFA machine guns but not transferable but still lawfully possessed today
• repair parts for registered machine gun receivers. So I can buy all the internals for a M16 from brownells. these are unregulated federally. The third hole drilled in a AR makes the AR the machine gun. You have a registered M16 receiver and need to replace any parts because of wear, you cannot possess the "automatic parts" even though unregulated federally.

Mostly they have made efforts to avoid any takings in the new law. A taking that limits use (cant carry prebans) is a taking for sure, but a harder one to argue since you get to keep it. Not being able to sell/transfer something has already failed to get traction in federal court as a taking.

Are people in current possession of transferable UZI bolts, HK Sears, ect grandfathered from that “automatic parts” section?

Or are they in hot water once this goes into effect?

 

[silversquirrel]

I have a much different situation than most that is why Im Concerned. My firearms are gonna be stored at a relatives house who have a LTC while I go into the army. I don't want them to get pinched while I'm away.

Do your relatives have a safe? Do you? If not, get one. Lock em up and don't give them the combo.

 

[hawkinhunter95]

Do your relatives have a safe? Do you? If not, get one. Lock em up and don't give them the combo.

Yes I have a couple safes

 

[TLB]

Overpricing shit so it doesn't sell so you can keep it, while simultaneously showing and telling your wife you "have a bunch of guns for sale" to get her to stop acting like you're wasting money etc.

You are seriously an NES treasure. This place would be pretty depressing many days without your sense of humor.

 

[inkdesigner]

Everyone has been talking about AR's and lists and what guns will have to be EFA10'ed when and no one has mentioned the change in training needed to apply for an LTC. The list of things needed to be trained in and mandatory range time looks as though it would put training out of reach for a lot of people either cost, time, or just making it so difficult that some will be discouraged and not bother.

That is assuming the MSP EVER actually develops the required training course/material. It is so far down on their list of priorities that I'm not even sure it IS even on the list.

Also, I would bet that this new course with its range time will be so expensive that it will be out of reach for many as well

 

[pcgod]

This is confusing...... I am not buying or selling anything until I get a better take from GOAL. I did grab a couple10 round magazines for older 9mm's (preban) that have never seen a 10 round mag. I look at Jason Guida's posts and I think he is posting from the perspective of how you can be charged and how he would defend you. Is it what will happen? I don't know. But with 600k folks having permits in this state if just 10% bought an AR or AR lower that would mean 60K firearms need to be turned in or sold out of state. I doubt the police have the time to chase 60k firearms and determine what has been done. Note 10% is LOW I bet.

 

[Rococo]

that's what i've been going with since '16
maura said they're ALL illegal, folding stocks, muzzle breaks and bayo lugs aren't going to make them illegaler

they
are
all
illegal....

on 8/1, they're grandfathered

Do they have to be ‘registered’ to be considered legal? That’s the question. I feel like there a holes the size of a Mac truck that they can exploit while you sit rotting in jail or out on bail

 

[pastera]

@pastera I’m not caught up on the current thread but it seems talking to shop owners a Ruger 10/22 can no longer be purchased after 8/1. Is this accurate?
Used 10/22 registered/FA10 prior to 8/1 are still ok for sale

The 2016 FAQ laklong with the referenced Appendix A lists these as good to go.

So is it the non-existent roster list the reason the 10/22 can no longer be sold new?

What about non-copy semi duplicates that are not Appendix A and not the enumerated ar/ak/etc copy/duplicates with non-scary wood stocks, no pistol grips, and no bayo lugs like an M1A but in 9mm PCC these will be OK if logged prior to 8/1/24?

Is this still the correct Appendix A?
https://www.mass.gov/doc/appendix-a-to-18-usc-s-922-guns/download

If it’s not Appendix A, not enumerated, not a AW copy, but a SA PCC sort of equivalent to a sub2000 or SW FPC and registered by 8/1 it’s ok?

From 2016 FAQ

@MAJoe answered it

They didn't update the handgun roster language to exclude rifles and shotguns from the requirements of what a dealer can sell.
Therefore, ALL long guns of any type are excluded from commercial sale until the error is cured (a new bill), the roster is updated to individually or blanket add long guns, or the entire section is struck down.

Private sales are unaffected as as are out of state purchase

 

[pastera]

This is confusing...... I am not buying or selling anything until I get a better take from GOAL. I did grab a couple10 round magazines for older 9mm's (preban) that have never seen a 10 round mag. I look at Jason Guida's posts and I think he is posting from the perspective of how you can be charged and how he would defend you. Is it what will happen? I don't know. But with 600k folks having permits in this state if just 10% bought an AR or AR lower that would mean 60K firearms need to be turned in or sold out of state. I doubt the police have the time to chase 60k firearms and determine what has been done. Note 10% is LOW I bet.

You are assuming only 10% only own a single AR

That's doesn't even come close to a valid estimate for a large number of people

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Anyone see this?

Section 128A.

1. (f) A bona fide collector of firearms may purchase a firearm that was not previously owned or registered in the commonwealth from a dealer licensed under section 122 if it is a curio or relic firearm as defined in section 121.

Not even sure what they're trying to exempt? Is there any section that says you can't own a firearm not previously owned in the commonwealth?

Yes, the only handguns that can be bought from a dealer in Mass are those that are on the list of approved firearms or that were owned and registered in Mass previously. That eliminated almost all C&R guns from sale by dealers. We got this put in a few years ago so that if you have a C&R and you want to buy from a dealer you can if it is a C&R gun.

Many dealers don't follow the law when it comes to C&R's as they just do the FFL to FFL transfer but they and the C&R are supposed to follow all state laws per BATF.

 

[EJFudd]

Do they have to be ‘registered’ to be considered legal? That’s the question. I feel like there a holes the size of a Mac truck that they can exploit while you sit rotting in jail or out on bail

It would really be something if that neutered AR or AK lookalike that you bought FTF from another member long before Maura was never recorded in the transfers database. It was all done on paper back then and you had to rely on the seller to mail in the paperwork. Going to prison now because the state never received or lost or couldn't read the paperwork correctly would be a major downer.

 

[Picton]

If you are afraid of vagueness sell your shit. The vagueness ain't going away.

Otherwise put on big kid pants for once alongside many thousands of others in the same position.

This should be stickied.

Well the reason I ask is I'm heading into the army 8/6. My firearms will be stored with relatives who have ltcs. I don't want them to get pinched because of me.

Good on you for joining. The army will teach you that it's better to ask forgiveness than permission. The sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll make E4.

No proper E4 would ever ask how to try to obey an un-obeyable law. He'd just blithely disobey, which is what you should be doing too. Good luck downrange!

 

[p.tice]

We got this put in a few years ago so that if you have a C&R and you want to buy from a dealer you can if it is a C&R gun.

Right- forgot about that. Interesting that the MA interpretation of C&R is different from federal.

 

[hawkinhunter95]

I got another question. What if you wanted to buy an ole mil surp like a lee Enfield or mosin after August 1. Are you not allowed to buy it until it's put on a roster?

 

[Hardwired]

The roster is the issue for the non-assault weapon semis.

So if it’s not on the Appendix A list deemed not AW, and not a copy of the enumerated ones, and sold/built/fa10 by 8/1/24 it’s OK?

For example like a Suomi KP/31 semi with a 16” barrel.

 

[Picton]

I got another question. What if you wanted to buy an ole mil surp like a lee Enfield or mosin after August 1. Are you not allowed to buy it until it's put on a roster?

If you're going active duty, you'll soon be living in another state. Unless you're bound for Ft Drum, you're almost guaranteed to be living someplace where you can get nearly anything you want.

So. Do that.

By the time you bring those sexy Free State gats back to live in Massachusetts, big chunks of this law might well be invalidated. If they're not? Just don't tell the state anything they don't need to know.

Meanwhile, you should just leave all your guns in your safe and not give anyone the combo.

 

[EJFudd]

Is there any section that says you can't own a firearm not previously owned in the commonwealth?

Ben answered, but I'll just add that the specific wording he is talking about comes out of Mass. General Laws c.140 § 123.

"Clauses Eighteenth to Twenty-first, inclusive, of the first paragraph shall not apply to: (i) a firearm lawfully owned or possessed under a license issued under this chapter on or before October 21, 1998..."

Note that this does not just apply to C&R handguns. It applies to all pre-October 1998 handguns.

 

[sig shooter]

In terms of training yes.

I suspect that there will be some LTC’s not renewed now that the licensing process will be allowed expanded access to DMH health records and the other sundries the slide in.

COP have always used Section 12 applications and involuntary commitments in determining “suitability”. The only difference now is that when the DMH check is done, any sec 12 applications in the applicants file are now sent directly to the licensing authority. Generally speaking, anytime someone is Sec 12, a copy is faxed over to the PD so the person can be dragged in for a forced psych eval. DMH only maintains records of those that are under their care or have been in a DMH facility like a psych facility. Regular medical and therapist records are not kept by DMH.

In short, if you haven’t been sectioned, committed, or spent time in a psych facility. You’re good to go. If you have, I would consult an attorney before renewing or applying

 

[chris_1001]

No. The only sticky attribute is capable of accepting a detachable magazine. Other features can be neutered and are evaluated as they are. So once detachable, always detachable is what is accurate.

Lets say I have a lower that was never built and sis not come with a mag release, say I manufactured it as a fixed mag, so it was never a "legit" detachable mag set up, would this technically be a fixed mag lower?

I see the part were you say "capable of", but its not yet a firearm, but merely a stripped lower for now...

Note, I would not fix a mag period. Just asking out of curiosity. So don't roast me as a cuck

 

[chris_1001]

I'd be in on this - question is startup costs and can we get enough towns to call us versus the existing ones that have been rumored to be handing out kickbacks.

It would be better than nothing, if we had say a few people on call 24/7 to grab them at the first hint of trouble. Maybe charge a membership fee to keep up with the costs.

Might not work in all instances, but its better than the existing system.

 

[nm1]

Ben answered, but I'll just add that the specific wording he is talking about comes out of Mass. General Laws c.140 § 123.

"Clauses Eighteenth to Twenty-first, inclusive, of the first paragraph shall not apply to: (i) a firearm lawfully owned or possessed under a license issued under this chapter on or before October 21, 1998..."

Note that this does not just apply to C&R handguns. It applies to all pre-October 1998 handguns.

Now it will apply to all ‘firearms’

 

[silversquirrel]

Ben answered, but I'll just add that the specific wording he is talking about comes out of Mass. General Laws c.140 § 123.

"Clauses Eighteenth to Twenty-first, inclusive, of the first paragraph shall not apply to: (i) a firearm lawfully owned or possessed under a license issued under this chapter on or before October 21, 1998..."

Note that this does not just apply to C&R handguns. It applies to all pre-October 1998 handguns.

So lawfully owned or possessed on or before 98 or under a license issued on or before 98?
Seriously. Confusing.

 

[hawkinhunter95]

If you're going active duty, you'll soon be living in another state. Unless you're bound for Ft Drum, you're almost guaranteed to be living someplace where you can get nearly anything you want.

So. Do that.

By the time you bring those sexy Free State gats back to live in Massachusetts, big chunks of this law might well be invalidated. If they're not? Just don't tell the state anything they don't need to know.

Meanwhile, you should just leave all your guns in your safe and not give anyone the combo.

True. Figured I'd ask for friends

 

[EJFudd]

So lawfully owned or possessed on or before 98 or under a license issued on or before 98?
Seriously. Confusing.

You really have to read Mass. General Laws c.140 § 123 to get the context and fully understand the meaning. Bottom line is that the state didn't want any further dealer sales of pre-October 1998 handguns that weren't listed on the Approved Roster or already legally possessed in MA.

 

[Reptile]

You really have to read Mass. General Laws c.140 § 123 to get the context and fully understand the meaning. Bottom line is that the state didn't want any further dealer sales of pre-October 1998 handguns that weren't listed on the Approved Roster or already legally possessed in MA.

So, if it's on the Approved Roster and pre-October 1998 - Like a Glock 19 Gen 2 - a dealer could still sell it?

Or, does it have to be in Massachusetts before 8/1/24?

 

[M125X]

How will all
This affect 80s

 

[EJFudd]

Now it will apply to all ‘firearms’

Interesting point. I'd have to see an updated copy of Mass. General Laws c.140 § 123 incorporating the new law to see how it reads. So far, I can't figure out if that would be a new limitation placed on dealer sales of older/used long guns.

 

[CrackPot]

Lets say I have a lower that was never built and sis not come with a mag release, say I manufactured it as a fixed mag, so it was never a "legit" detachable mag set up, would this technically be a fixed mag lower?

I see the part were you say "capable of", but its not yet a firearm, but merely a stripped lower for now...

Note, I would not fix a mag period. Just asking out of curiosity. So don't roast me as a cuck

This scenario I believe is 100% ok as an 07 FFL. I am willing to bet it will be less than 100% as a private citizen. As an 07 I manufacture a rifle from parts and the rifle comes into existence as a fixed mag. This also happens on my bound book. As a private citizen, you assemble a rifle from a receiver (the regulated item) and there is no paper trail for "manufacture" like there is for a 07.

Just my view

 

[MAJoe]

So if it’s not on the Appendix A list deemed not AW, and not a copy of the enumerated ones, and sold/built/fa10 by 8/1/24 it’s OK?

For example like a Suomi KP/31 semi with a 16” barrel.

Yes it’s okay to own and private party transfer if it isn’t an AWB and/or grandfathered. What you quoted was me talking about dealer sales and transfer. A single shot bolt action 22 won’t be allowed to be sold by a dealer once this is in effect. If this takes 90 days though… I would imagine non-banned firearms are okay to transfer during that time, but I’m neither a lawyer nor a FFL.