Long Range Rifle

PatMcD said:
It's very possible to shoot a MOA-size group at 1000 yds, but with a 10X scope, what you are aiming at needs to be a little larger than 10-1/2".
As Jose said, your crosshairs would cover most, if not all of that. Try putting a 1" black dot on white paper at 100yds and see for yourself.
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Why would I shoot at 1" dots when I can shoot at 1/4" dots. Theres no point if you can't hit what you are aiming at. A little funny looking over the target thread with so many tiny groups 2' away from the bull. If you think 10x is not enough I guess you have used 10x at that range. Great for you. Just because you reticle covers a moa target at 1000 yards does not mean they all do.
 
SteveCase said:
Now quick question for alot of these long range matches are they shooting for small groups or just to hit a certain size target at KD.

Those thunder valley shoots people are just shooting at steel targets, under conditions like that a 10x scope would be fine? but what about other matches are they going for just tight groupings?
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It all depends on the particular shooting discipline.

Long range benchrest is shot for groups, and I think some matches are for score (five shot group into a target with scoring rings). You pick your condition and shoot as fast as you can to get your five off.

NRA mid range and long range prone conventional (metallic sights) or F class (magnified optics)
You shoot for score in strings of 15 or 20 rounds. Each shot is marked and scored independently. So you shoot, the target gets pulled into the pits, the hole is filled with a white marking disc, a scoring disk is placed in the correct spot of the target edge, and the target is run back up. You and your scorer see the value of the shot, you correct for wind or elevation based on the location of the shot, and shoot again. Do this 15 or 20 times within a time limit of 1 minute per shot at 600 yards and 1 min 30 seconds per shot at 800 to 1000 yards.

There is no sanctioning body for practical long range steel shooting so every range or club makes up its rules. At Thunder Valley, the Intimidator has steel plates at odd distances, though the distances are known so you can pre-set your dope for each shot. You get three attempts at each target. First round hit is worth 10 points. Miss and hit with your second shot and score 5. Miss and hit with your third shot and score 1.
 
I think if people read my posts, I was asking questions/trying to clarify what was being said. I didn't question anybody's ability; just trying to point out that with your standard 10X scope, you can't see a MOA target. I have no idea what a Gen 2xr, but I'm going to guess it's not a beginner's scope.
I've used my (not high-dollar) 10x scope at 600yds. It's nowhere near enough.
People need to lighten up.
 
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oneswithfunes said:
All I am going to speak to here is that you have no clue what was posted. Why don't you try converting .04 mil to inches at 1000 yards. Then tell him why he can't see the target. NES is so full of this. Call the dude out on his shooting if you want, but if you are going to call him out on facts you better know what your talking about. You clearly don't here.
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Ratchet down, Chief.
Read above
 
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SteveCase said:
Now quick question for alot of these long range matches are they shooting for small groups or just to hit a certain size target at KD.

Those thunder valley shoots people are just shooting at steel targets, under conditions like that a 10x scope would be fine? but what about other matches are they going for just tight groupings?
Click to expand...

This is typical KD shooting for score in F-Class. The targets are 6 feet square. The Aiming black is 44" and the x ring that they are trying to hit is 5".



Traditional prone HP, although this is at 600 yards I think.



Very different shooting than field/UKD.

B
 
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PatMcD said:
It's very possible to shoot a MOA-size group at 1000 yds, but with a 10X scope, what you are aiming at needs to be a little larger than 10-1/2".
As Jose said, your crosshairs would cover most, if not all of that. Try putting a 1" black dot on white paper at 100yds and see for yourself.
Click to expand...

No need to ratchet down. I understand the above. Seems you are stating that at 10x the cross hair covers a moa target. You stated "Try putting a 1" black dot on white paper at 100yds and see for yourself." To me that supports your theory that at 10x a scope will cover a moa target. All this after asking to clarify a statement that was pretty clear to me. "MOA or Man size". Where did man size come from? He stated MOA. Where does a beginners scope come in? There are lots of sub 1000 dollar scopes with pretty thin reticles.
 
oneswithfunes said:
No need to ratchet down. I understand the above. Seems you are stating that at 10x the cross hair covers a moa target. You stated "Try putting a 1" black dot on white paper at 100yds and see for yourself." To me that supports your theory that at 10x a scope will cover a moa target. All this after asking to clarify a statement that was pretty clear to me. "MOA or Man size". Where did man size come from? He stated MOA. Where does a beginners scope come in? There are lots of sub 1000 dollar scopes with pretty thin reticles.
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I'm PM'ing you so as not to detract from this thread.
 
XTAV750 said:
Ok, so I'm about to pickup a savage heavy barrel in .308 with a 3-9x40 luepold scope from another forum member this week. Whats the best way to get started here? just go and feel it out, or get with some people that know what theyre doing?
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do you have the ability to go LR, probably not i would shoot the rifle first with some factory stuff see how she does. From there reload a little bit and then swap stocks.
 
XTAV750 said:
Ok, so I'm about to pickup a savage heavy barrel in .308 with a 3-9x40 luepold scope from another forum member this week. Whats the best way to get started here? just go and feel it out, or get with some people that know what theyre doing?
Click to expand...

You really need to get together with people who know what they are doing AND read about the many technical aspects of long range shooting.

You're not going to figure this out on your own, at least not easily.
 
SteveCase said:
Hey you can only learn from your mistakes
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Better yet, learn from the experience and mistakes of others.

The problem is that most shooters new to the long range game don't know what they don't know.

This a whole order of magnitude more difficult than what most people do with rifles. I am not saying one can't learn it on ones own. I'm just saying it is MUCH easier and faster if you have a mentor or mentors.
 
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Jose said:
Better yet, learn from the experience and mistakes of others.

The problem is that most shooters new to the long range game don't know what they don't know.

This a whole order of magnitude more difficult than what most people do with rifles. I am not saying one can't learn it on ones own. I'm just saying it is MUCH easier and faster if you have a mentor or mentors.
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oh god yes having a mentor would make things go much easier and easier usally means ''cheap"


I kinda plan on getting a rifle togeather getting some good groupings at 300yd (closets LR distance around here) then go to either the class in maine or a 600yd match they have. but no way in hell will i try for 1k right off the bat, 600 is probably gonna be challeging.
 
Jose said:
You really need to get together with people who know what they are doing AND read about the many technical aspects of long range shooting.

You're not going to figure this out on your own, at least not easily.
Click to expand...

This ^^^ You need experienced friends and lots of reading.

Past 600yrds it's a technical and mental game. Much of it will take forever to figure out by trial and error. For example, at 7:00am it's a cool 60deg and you good dope for 200yrds and 1000yrds. You go back out at 3:00pm when it's 90 deg and you are still zeroed at 200yrds but hitting high at 1000. Why? Your powder burns a little faster when hot so your muzzel velocity goes up, plus the air is thinner so you loose less speed during the 1 3/4 second flight. Then there is reading the wind. That is as much art as science.
 
cockpitbob said:
This ^^^ You need experienced friends and lots of reading.

Past 600yrds it's a technical and mental game. Much of it will take forever to figure out by trial and error. For example, at 7:00am it's a cool 60deg and you good dope for 200yrds and 1000yrds. You go back out at 3:00pm when it's 90 deg and you are still zeroed at 200yrds but hitting high at 1000. Why? Your powder burns a little faster when hot so your muzzel velocity goes up, plus the air is thinner so you loose less speed during the 1 3/4 second flight. Then there is reading the wind. That is as much art as science.
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all in good fun I say, cause if you can hit a target at 1k without any methodical thinking/ making sure everything is perfect it wouldnt be fun or interesting.


I can talk about it till im blue in the face, but there comes a time you gotta get out there and do it. Sometime winging it is better than not doing anything at all.
I really want to attend the weapon craft class, who else is with me.
 
cockpitbob said:
This ^^^ You need experienced friends and lots of reading.

Past 600yrds it's a technical and mental game. Much of it will take forever to figure out by trial and error. For example, at 7:00am it's a cool 60deg and you good dope for 200yrds and 1000yrds. You go back out at 3:00pm when it's 90 deg and you are still zeroed at 200yrds but hitting high at 1000. Why? Your powder burns a little faster when hot so your muzzel velocity goes up, plus the air is thinner so you loose less speed during the 1 3/4 second flight. Then there is reading the wind. That is as much art as science.
Click to expand...

I'm all for experienced friends.... wait I dont have any... So who wants to teach some noobs?
 
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SteveCase said:
all in good fun I say, cause if you can hit a target at 1k without any methodical thinking/ making sure everything is perfect it wouldnt be fun or interesting.


I can talk about it till im blue in the face, but there comes a time you gotta get out there and do it. Sometime winging it is better than not doing anything at all.
I really want to attend the weapon craft class, who else is with me.
Click to expand...

Before you do anything else, buy this: http://www.amazon.com/Prone-Long-Ra...r_1_27?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301797894&sr=1-27
 
So I am doing some shopping, and I think Savage is going to get my money. I am interested in this particular model, but I can't seem to find it on Savages page.

Model 10 FCP H-S Precision 5R .308

It has everything I think I want, H-S stock, detachable box mag, 24" barrel, a 5R barrel(do I want this, I think I do?), and a threaded muzzle (not really needed, but if it comes that way why not?).

I just get nervous when I can't find anything on the manufacturers website.

What do you guys think?
 
edmorseiii said:
So I am doing some shopping, and I think Savage is going to get my money. I am interested in this particular model, but I can't seem to find it on Savages page.

Model 10 FCP H-S Precision 5R .308

It has everything I think I want, H-S stock, detachable box mag, 24" barrel, a 5R barrel(do I want this, I think I do?), and a threaded muzzle (not really needed, but if it comes that way why not?).

I just get nervous when I can't find anything on the manufacturers website.

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

I think it's a good deal

The 5R barrel refers to the shape and geometry of the rifling lands and grooves. It doesn't hurt and sometimes it improves accuracy by stressing the bullet jacket less. Some say it also reduces fouling, though I have no first hand experience with it.

The threaded muzzle is nice. One less thing to do if you want to attach a suppressor.

I wouldn't worry about it not being in Savage's catalog. It's probably a special run made for a big distributor or retailer much like the off-catalog guns S&W makes for Talo or Lew Horton.
 
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