Police respond to report of shooting at pro-Israeli protest in Newton

[Dench]

True. But for example you have a guy who has had training, yet has a legitimate shoulder injury, yet hasn't gone for surgery. That's what I was getting at.

Who has training? In what?

And if he's injured why is he engaging and escalating with other men out in the wild?

 

[Toast]

It was mutual combat.

I don't recall hearing the veteran in the pre-altercation yelling, just that very loud woman. It's also quite a stretch to claim "mutual combat" when one person was tackled from behind.

 

[Buck F]

met a MA instructor once, not an NES member, who carried a Glock without a round in the chamber. Said it was the only way to safely carry. So the quality can vary, A LOT.

I took NRA Basic Pistol as a prerequisite for the NRA Pistol Instructor certification. I was already NRA Home Firearms Safety certified and was adding the Pistol cert. Everyone but me was there for their MA LTC. Instructor told the class that while not required, they should provide a list of their firearms to the local PD as a courtesy. I damn near fell off my chair. I reported the guy to the club the class was conducted at, my understanding is that he got a talking to.

 

[headednorth]

I don't recall hearing the veteran in the pre-altercation yelling, just that very loud woman.

Crazy! When has that ever happened before?

 

[Buck F]

TIhe standard is that low?

Essentially any hands on outside chest bumping would satisfy that. Not only that, the definition you posted contradicts itself immediately. A black eye is not worse enough. Well how the hell do you get the majority of black eyed in fights? Strikes to the face. Which would satisfy thier definition.

I know you guys dont like it. But the reality is they were talking some big shit to a person who was clearly insane. It was mutual combat. Dont want to get into a fight? Dont run your mouth. A concept as old as time.

Who has training? In what?

And if he's injured why is he engaging and escalating with other men out in the wild?

Usually you're one of the more reasonable guys on here but this seriously has me questioning which video you watched. It is not mutual combat when one individual runs across the street and tackles another. The only voices you could hear on the video were the woman shrieking and the attacker, where do you get that Hayes was engaged in any type of mutual combat? There was no chest bumping or mutual squaring off.

It seems like some of your analysis of the situation is colored by your experience as a trained fighter. Are there things Hayes could have done after he was on the ground? Sure, if he knew what he was doing. Not being a trained fighter does not negate one's reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily harm when one is tackled unprovoked, on the ground on the bottom being pummeled and with the attacker repeatedly attempting to choke you (being at a protest and even engaging a counter protester across the street is not a provocation and there's no evidence at all that Hayes was engaging Gannon, in fact he appeared to be blindsided by the tackle).

 

[vicorjh]

It was mutual combat.

 

[Dench]

View attachment 918175

Using that logic the "good guy" introduced leathal force into a fight he was looking for.

 

[Dench]

Usually you're one of the more reasonable guys on here but this seriously has me questioning which video you watched. It is not mutual combat when one individual runs across the street and tackles another.

So the Israel guy was tackled by the Palestinian guy for no obvious reason? If thats the case the Israeli guy could have a good defense.

 

[vicorjh]

Using that logic the "good guy" introduced leathal force into a fight he was looking for.

If you ignore the mutual part, sure.

 

[Dench]

If that guy was a cop half this place would be loosing its mind. The dogma here really blinds you guys.

 

[vicorjh]

So the Israel guy was tackled by the Palestinian guy for no obvious reason? If thats the case the Israeli guy could have a good defense.

You've watched the video(s). What would you consider an obvious reason there?

 

[Dench]

You've watched the video(s). What would you consider an obvious reason there?

Werent both parties screaming at each other across the street with directed personal attacks?

Fighting words is a real thing. Talk shit to a loon and what do you expect?

 

[vicorjh]

Werent both parties screaming at each other across the street with directed personal attacks?

What did he say? Who initiated that 'conversation'? Were they across they street from each other? Who created an imminent threat? Who, in this scenario, has a duty to retreat? Who went hands on? At what point did the parties 'agree' to mutual combat?

 

[Love Machine]

What I have learned from this thread is that the average NESer will get convicted after a good shoot.

 

[walter62]

Jewish group expresses support for man who shot anti-Israel attacker - Washington Examiner

Betar, a century-old Jewish organization, expressed support for “American hero” Scott Hayes, a veteran who was attacked by an anti-Israel agitator.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[Dench]

What did he say? Who initiated that 'conversation'? Were they across they street from each other? Who created an imminent threat? Who, in this scenario, has a duty to retreat? Who went hands on? At what point did the parties 'agree' to mutual combat?

Watch the video?

Neither had a duty to retreat. Both parties were activly escalating. They got exactlt what they were looking for.

 

[not new guy]

What I have learned from this thread is that the average NESer will get convicted after a good shoot.

It sounds like most think it’s a good idea to shoot in response to any sort of physical altercation.

 

[Dench]

It sounds like most think it’s a good idea to shoot in response to any sort of physical altercation.

That's what men do when they act formidable but aint.

Dont write checks your ass cant cash.

 

[vicorjh]

Watch the video?

Not seeing or hearing the things you're seeing and hearing from the posted video(s). We only know what we we've seen, of course.

Please, inform. What words did he say to create a mutual combat scenario? Or, to create an imminent threat (to the assailant) due to those uttered words?

 

[Junior314]

TIhe standard is that low?

Essentially any hands on outside chest bumping would satisfy that. Not only that, the definition you posted contradicts itself immediately. A black eye is not worse enough. Well how the hell do you get the majority of black eyed in fights? Strikes to the face. Which would satisfy thier definition.

I know you guys dont like it. But the reality is they were talking some big shit to a person who was clearly insane. It was mutual combat. Dont want to get into a fight? Dont run your mouth. A concept as old as time.

I must be missing something?

Where is it being reported he antagonized the guy who ran across the street.

 

[Hogie1]

Who has training? In what?

And if he's injured why is he engaging and escalating with other men out in the wild?

I'm just saying in general. Not all people have training, but some do. The example I'm giving is "Guy A", who has some background in BJJ but has a torn rotator cuff. He is attacked for no reason and assaulted by "Guy B" where he threw "Guy A" to the cement sidewalk and mounted him, striking his head to the ground. Bare hands and smashing of a skull on a hard surface is definitely a lethal or serious bodily injury threat, but he doesn't think he will last long because of his preexisting injury, so he uses a firearm in lethal force self defense. Yes, I'm using the Newton incident to stage my example, but it's totally realistic as a scenario.

 

[Dench]

I'm just saying in general. Not all people have training, but some do. The example I'm giving is "Guy A", who has some background in BJJ but has a torn rotator cuff. He is attacked for no reason and assaulted by "Guy B" where he threw "Guy A" to the cement sidewalk and mounted him, striking his head to the ground. Bare hands and smashing of a skull on a hard surface is definitely a lethal or serious bodily injury threat, but he doesn't think he will last long because of his preexisting injury, so he uses a firearm in lethal force self defense. Yes, I'm using the Newton incident to stage my example, but it's totally realistic as a scenario.

Where is your example from?

 

[Junior314]

That's what men do when they act formidable but aint.

Dont write checks your ass cant cash.

The only guy that acted formidable was the one who ran through traffic to assault someone.

 

[Dench]

I must be missing something?

Where is it being reported he antagonized the guy who ran across the street.

So the claim is other people were nane calling and talking shit and he attacked an uninvolved bystander? If so that would change my opinion quite a bit

 

[Dench]

The only guy that acted formidable was the one who ran through traffic to assault someone.

Ironically and sadly true.

The bad guy was the only one willing to throw down. Which is why people shouldn't risk this shit for no reason.

The guys a loon. Ignore him. Why engage crazy?

 

[Junior314]

So the claim is other people were nane calling and talking shit and he attacked an uninvolved bystander? If so that would change my opinion quite a bit

The stupid woman in the video was 100% antagonizing him. From what I have seen in the actual video and read there are zero claims that the shooter was running his mouth to the guy. If there is something out there that says otherwise please post it up.

 

[Junior314]

Ironically and sadly true.

The bad guy was the only one willing to throw down. Which is why people shouldn't risk this shit for no reason.

The guys a loon. Ignore him. Why engage crazy?

No argument from me on the bolded part.

 

[Dench]

The stupid woman in the video was 100% antagonizing him. From what I have seen in the actual video and read there are zero claims that the shooter was running his mouth to the guy. If there is something out there that says otherwise please post it up.

Well, he should of blasted the woman instead of the guy.

Not the 1st time a womans gotten the guy next to her beat up because of her mouth.

Woman are the last people you want around confrontations as they make it worse.

 

[Junior314]

Well, he should of blasted the woman instead of the guy.

Not the 1st time a womans gotten the guy next to her beat up because of her mouth.

Woman are the last people you want around confrontations as they make it worse.

Yup she was annoying for sure.

But in the meantime he had a mentally unstable person who had just run through traffic and tried tackling a guy with his back turned to him.

 

[Hogie1]

Where is your example from?

Not a specific incident.