Why Im considering no longer carrying

[jkdyoyo]

I think you made the right decision for you, and for the reasons you stated. If you had gotten into it with that guy, he might have even grabbed your weapon and turned it on you. Never get within striking distance with an adversary when you are armed. - Mike

+1 Like others have stated, you'll never know unless you're in the situation and feel the energy of the moment. I think you made the right decision for you at the moment it happened. BTW, was your daughter there? That certainly makes a huge difference in my response if I was in the company of my family.

I probably would have stayed 15-20 ft away and asked the girl if she's ok. Like others have stated, most women in "love" probably would attack you if you tried to offer a lending hand.

 

[Turbocharged]

It's pretty sad when state law and policy prevents people from doing the right thing because we have to cover our own ass.

In Massachusetts, there are no Good Samaritans, just criminals. [sad2]

 

[MassMark]

Sometimes, I really wonder about you guys.

You see a man assault a woman and say/do nothing, and everyone else thinks that's a good idea? WTF is wrong with society today?

Maybe I'm the crazy one.

Please, Martlet please - a dollar a week - I'll do the same. I know it's a long shot, but if we get a few more people to do it, we might just hit Mega-Millions...We'll have to come up with a name for the town, but I know where there's 20,000 acres for sale....Everyone can build to suit and pull guard duty at the main gate once a week....

I just can't fathom standing there with my cell phone while a woman is being beaten....God forbid he beat her to death - of course, the police are always right around the corner......I can't imagine facing my family , or the man in the mirror knowing I had largely done nothing.....

 

[Martlet]

Please, Martlet please - a dollar a week - I'll do the same. I know it's a long shot, but if we get a few more people to do it, we might just hit Mega-Millions...We'll have to come up with a name for the town, but I know where there's 20,000 acres for sale....Everyone can build to suit and pull guard duty at the main gate once a week....

I just can't fathom standing there with my cell phone while a woman is being beaten....God forbid he beat her to death - of course, the police are always right around the corner......I can't imagine facing my family , or the man in the mirror knowing I had largely done nothing.....

I would put a considerable amount of money into such a venture.

 

[Alien]

I usually carry pepper spray as a non lethal self defense means if I feel deadly force is not a legal option. In you situation I think you did the right thing. If it looked like she was in danger of serious injury or worse and the guy didn't have a weapon I "might" have yelled stop with a finger on the button of the pepper spray. Having a wife, girlfriend, or child with might have still kept me from doing anything but calling the police?

With that being said 20 years ago at 3 AM I hear a guy beating the crap out of a girl outside my window. I looked out my window and there was a guy beating this girl standing in the back doorway of a van. Being the old fashioned guy I am I ran outside and intervened only to have the girl jump on my back yelling leave him alone just as another poster said would happen. I immediately walked away and yelled you two deserve each other. It was the last time I ever intervened in a domestic violence situation.

Don't give up your CCW. Be prepared for all situations, phone, pepper spray, situational awareness. Talk with your girlfriend, wife, friends who may be with you about what to do in a situation (have cell phone ready to call police).

 

[Mass-diver]

A single slap doesn't warrant anything more than a phone call to 911 and a report of the incident.

.

I agree, lovers quarrels are bad news. As had been mentioned countless times in this thread, the classic turn of events is that the woman turns on the good samaritan. It's one thing to step in to save someone life, but otherwise just call the police and let them do their job.

 

[salesman]

If you stop carrying you'll only be hurting yourself. You might be with your little girl and not have "it" when you need it. Just a thought.

 

[K-DUB]

Sometimes, I really wonder about you guys.

You see a man assault a woman and say/do nothing, and everyone else thinks that's a good idea? WTF is wrong with society today?

Maybe I'm the crazy one.

Thank you Martlet. I'm constantly amazed by the pussification of men in this culture. I happen to carry my own protection, but most women don't. It's shocking that "men" don't want to help a damsel in distress.

If you think it's just a verbal squabble & don't want to get involved, that's fine...mind your own business. If it's an actual assault, & the woman is being hurt, man up. I would.

Also, you said:

"If not carrying I would have beat him to a pulp."

Dude, THAT is A&B, no matter what you're carrying, & then you can kiss your LTC goodbye.

 

[Scrivener]

Martlet, I was left with two choices being from MA.. Support my Familay [sic] or face years of legal fees.. Sorry if you dont understand that. Let me know when you need contributions to your leagal [sic] fees you Vigalantie [sic]

What - you carry a gun, but NOT a cell phone?

You can't simply say "Is there a problem, Miss?"

Your chain of logic is missing some links.

 

[Martlet]

Also, you said:

Dude, THAT is A&B, no matter what you're carrying, & then you can kiss your LTC goodbye.

Just for clarification, I think you mean the OP. I never said that.

 

[Viking Kitten]

Thank you Martlet. I'm constantly amazed by the pussification of men in this culture. I happen to carry my own protection, but most women don't. It's shocking that "men" don't want to help a damsel in distress.

If you think it's just a verbal squabble & don't want to get involved, that's fine...mind your own business. If it's an actual assault, & the woman is being hurt, man up. I would.

I'd like to think I would also step up in some way though until I find myself in that situation I'm just playing keyboard hero. I think drawing on someone would be a last resort, I'd try to make it obvious there's an audience, call 911, etc.

It's also women though who may not get involved. Someone earlier said that in Mass we are making decisions to walk away from what we know is right because we are fearful of recriminations against us. We cannot be good Samaritans without repercussions (big heavy sigh).

 

[Martlet]

Domestic violence situations are very, very tricky. Intervening, as somebody pointed out, can end up with the guy AND the woman coming after you. It's best to let the cops handle it unless the situation is so gratuitous that intervention is absolutely necessary to save somebody's life or to prevent extreme bodily harm. I know where you're coming from but real-life situations are not necessarily as black and white as you might think.

If you'd continued to read the post before commenting, you'd see I said that.

 

[MassMark]

chivalry |ˈ sh ivəlrē|
noun
the medieval knightly system with its religious, moral, and social code.
• historical knights, noblemen, and horsemen collectively : I fought against the cream of French chivalry.
• the combination of qualities expected of an ideal knight, esp. courage, honor, courtesy, justice, and a readiness to help the weak.
• courteous behavior, esp. that of a man toward women : their relations with women were models of chivalry and restraint.
DERIVATIVES
chivalric | sh əˈvalrik| adjective
ORIGIN Middle English : from Old French chevalerie, from medieval Latin caballerius, from late Latin caballarius ‘horseman’ (see chevalier ).

Thesaurus
chivalry
noun
1 acts of chivalry gallantry, gentlemanliness, courtesy, courteousness, politeness, graciousness, mannerliness, good manners. antonym rudeness.
2 the values of chivalry knight errantry, courtly manners, knightliness, courtliness, nobility; bravery, courage, boldness, valour, heroism, daring, intrepidity; bushido.

The sheep count in our own ranks is f***ing amazing...

 

[45collector]

I think I would've yelled something to the guy like "Hey pal, the police are on their way. If I see you hit her again, they're going to find you on the ground unconscious." Could I get in trouble for threatening to batter someone if they continued to batter someone else?

 

[fencer]

What - you carry a gun, but NOT a cell phone?

You can't simply say "Is there a problem, Miss?"

Your chain of logic is missing some links.

This is very true. The other thing you might do is start snapping pictures with your camera phone.

 

[wolf223]

knee cap them both and call the police



in all seriousness.... people "arguing" in public is a very dynamic situation. you have to observe and take out the pack leader. so if some 6ft woman is beating on her 5ft husband, is it ok to punch the woman?????

 

[T3andme]

Thank you Martlet. I'm constantly amazed by the pussification of men in this culture. I happen to carry my own protection, but most women don't. It's shocking that "men" don't want to help a damsel in distress.

If you think it's just a verbal squabble & don't want to get involved, that's fine...mind your own business. If it's an actual assault, & the woman is being hurt, man up. I would.

Also, you said:

Dude, THAT is A&B, no matter what you're carrying, & then you can kiss your LTC goodbye.

KDub said it perfectly. A long time again I was "that" woman... Got help, broke the circle, reinvented myself and have a wonderful life now...
I now carry my own protection also.
You know, if you are too afraid (for which ever reason) to get involved....you could stand off to the side (if they are just yelling and pushing...) and yell that 911 has been called and yell to the woman "do you need help?"
just my .02 cents...

 

[AppleSeeds]

I think I would've yelled something to the guy like "Hey pal, the police are on their way. If I see you hit her again, they're going to find you on the ground unconscious." Could I get in trouble for threatening to batter someone if they continued to batter someone else?

i think this would be considered assault, technically, putting someone in fear of their life. Not saying anything would come of it, but that would be my opinion according to the definition.

I think some folks in the thread are not being appreciative of the situation and possible repercussions. I would venture to say everyone here would want to help because we're all good people but perverse laws and the real world make everything different.

 

[George D]

If not carrying I would have beat him to a pulp.

I think you are right, maybe you shouldn't be carrying.
Some people just need a beatdown. Unfortunately, you risk the chance of them ganging up on you and most of the time, the GF is going to side with the abuser.
I know of several siutations where the abuser gets into it with someone trying to intervene and the GF cold cocks the samaritan with a bottle over the head or chair to the back.
Its a crappy situation.
I don't think this event warrants you giving up CCW. If anything, it gives you the opportunity to think about what to do if the situation was escalated.

 

[garandman]

It's pretty sad when state law and policy prevents people from doing the right thing because we have to cover our own ass.

In Massachusetts, there are no Good Samaritans, just criminals. [sad2]

Did you not read my post where I essentially assaulted the guy to restrain him, told the police, and their response was "thank you?" Give them some credit.

Sometimes I think the biggest problem with this state is the people who post here!

 

[M1911]

Domestics are really nasty, unpredictable situations. I won't say that I would never intervene, but my default response would be to dial 911.

 

[wolf223]

Domestics are really nasty, unpredictable situations. I won't say that I would never intervene, but my default response would be to dial 911.

yup, its all fun and games until the "victim" cracks a beer bottle on the ground and stabs you in the back with it.....

this is a "what if" thread..... so as usual, i'm going to trust my gut instinct... call the po po and observe

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Did you not read my post where I essentially assaulted the guy to restrain him, told the police, and their response was "thank you?" Give them some credit.

You're missing one factor - if charges are pressed against the other person, you are a witness. That means the other party's defense counsel wants you to be cast in the bad light, be on the defensive, and be open to any deal agreeing not to press charges. All may be fine at the scene - and be followed up by opposing counsel showing the other party exactly how to file a criminal complaint against you. LTC holder vs. dirtbag with a criminal record and another minor rap they won't get jail for - care to guess who has more to lose?

 

[qmmo]

Yup, another "what if" scenario and CCW thread. This is one of the very few instances where I'd reluctantly set my type I hand phaser to stun - with the down side being the shrill warbling sound it makes will sometimes cause onlookers to cringe as it is akin to dragging fingernails across a chalkboard. I've gotten used to it over the years though.

 

[Chuck Would]

You did exactly the right thing. You observed a situation and spoke to a LEO about it and let them handle it. You know the LEO so if necessary you can be called into court to complete the job.

You had NO idea what was really going on. That might have been an LEO arresting that woman. She might have just stolen his wallet or walked up behind hit and hit him with a bottle. You don't know for sure. You only think you know. Big mistake. A mistake that could have landed you in jail.

I carry a firearm to protect me and mine. Everyone else has the same choice.

 

[HooVooLoo]

Indeed, qmmo. Based upon your avatar pic, we can tell what that phaser has done for your complexion, hehe.

If you see a situation like this and yell at the guy to stop slapping the woman, and then they both turn on YOU and start beating YOU, couldn't they then be charged with assaulting/battering YOU?

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

If you do insert yourself into said situation....you can always say "Miss, do you need some help?" This way you aren't suddenly the target of her anger for interferring in a lovers quarrel.

 

[garandman]

You're missing one factor - if charges are pressed against the other person, you are a witness. That means the other party's defense counsel wants you to be cast in the bad light, be on the defensive, and be open to any deal agreeing not to press charges. All may be fine at the scene - and be followed up by opposing counsel showing the other party exactly how to file a criminal complaint against you. LTC holder vs. dirtbag with a criminal record and another minor rap they won't get jail for - care to guess who has more to lose?

I'm not suggesting this is the best course of action in most instances - far from it - just saying that the LEO show a lot more discretion than they seem to be given credit for here.

In almost all circumstances you are completely right and extraordinary caution is appropriate.

In this case, where a guy was physically fighting with his gf and had her down on her back in the street in a traffic lane, the danger to her and others seemed to warrant immediate action, and there were others around who thought so too.

No one, including the perpetrator, questioned any of our actions. The guy was represented by a Public Defender and plead out to six months so I didn't have to testify.

 

[Pete85]

Martlet, I was left with two choices being from MA.. Support my Familay or face years of legal fees.. Sorry if you dont understand that. Let me know when you need contributions to your leagal fees you Vigalantie

Sorry, I disagree. You had a third choice there, call the cops and say something. Don't physically intervene unless her life is in danger or he physically comes after you. Your choices in this situation weren't only walk away or shoot. You did call the cops which was IMO the right thing to do here. Whether or not you still carry is up to you, but don't think that just because you have a gun that it becomes your only option.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Sorry, I disagree. You had a third choice there, call the cops and say something. Don't physically intervene unless her life is in danger or he physically comes after you. Your choices in this situation weren't only walk away or shoot. You did call the cops which was IMO the right thing to do here. Whether or not you still carry is up to you, but don't think that just because you have a gun that it becomes your only option.

+5

Maybe this guy shouldn't carry. Apparently the OP lacks the fortitude to deal with gray areas. That being said, this is not a reason to stop CCW, I think we are dealing with an individual who may lack the right mindset for CCW.