Massachusetts Bill HD.4420 "An act to modernize gun Laws"

The person that said drug dealers should get a minimum of 5 did not specify what they thought a drug dealer was.

The person that stated a 17 year old selling dimebags decided that was who OP was talking about.

Yes, there are different level of drugs and dealers. Weed is not the same as PcP, a dime bag is not the same as a kilo. We can not compare talking about drug dealers to 30 magazine clips. One is an action, one is an unanimated object.
The person who said drug dealers should get 5 years implied (by omission) that anyone who can be described as a drug dealer is equally culpable.

The person who described a 17 year-old with a dimebag called out a subset of {drug dealers} that he feels doesn't merit that punishment.

Pretending they're all the same is literally the same as using politically and emotionally charged terms like "assault weapon." Possessing contraband is the same regardless of the contraband - a dealer is arrested for his possession of contraband, as is a gun owner with a so-called LCAFD.

If you want to argue that certain drugs and their dealers merit these significant penalties, then we need to distinguish them. Of course, then we get back to Class I controlled substances (like mushrooms) that turn out to have significant potential as medical intervention, but are banned for "reasons," preventing respected septuagenarian veterans from possessing firearms for youthful indiscretion.

Hooray drug war!
 
If recreational drugs were legal then addicts could get their fix filled with known type and quality drugs.
How many alcoholics die or are blinded from methanol poisoning today?
Not many since you can easily buy known quality ethanol.
I'm thinking we all understand that addicts don't work and therefore would be unable to buy legal drugs......but I could be wrong....

In any event legal drugs don't change the criminal behavior of addicts who commit crimes to buy drugs, legal or otherwise..

It's insane to apply logic to drugs and drug addicted addicts and is akin to the "why can't we all get along" mentality and is truly effed up shit.
 
There is a belief rampart among the political elite who reside in the State House that there is no discernable viable life in the great empty hinterlands west of 495. Apparently, these self-appointed doyens of what constitutes civilized behavior can not envision the concept that normal law-abiding citizens can freely choose to bear arms in defense of their families and themselves as being anything other than a stark societal aberration that requires the immediate, if not sooner, intervention by the Beautiful Elite who know all that there is to know about everything.

The fiscal year has begun and there is still no agreed upon budget as of yet but the House would rather spend its dwindling time on this nonsense bill. I would like to think that the Senate will actually hold public hearings and be more transparent in their legislative evaluation of the bill and actually take gun owner’s concerns into consideration. The House……which gave us such sterling public servants such as Salvatore DiMasi, Thomas Finneran and Charles Flaherty….all former past Democratic Speakers….and all current convicted felons…..strikes me as a lost cause at its very best.

I am hoping for at least a tiny semblance of fairness during the Senate review but I fully realize that we are no longer in Kansas and despite madly clicking our heals with so much vigor that they sound like electric castanets gone wild they have already run over our dog and are looking at our sister in an unsavory manner. On a more positive note perhaps this entire sordid affair will give birth to a new state slogan that accurately reflects where the Commonwealth has arrived at these days…..Welcome to Massachusetts…..Where Political Mendacity and Obfuscation Have Risen to The Level of A New Art Form. Now that is something to really be proud of………

What appears to have become a rather widespread gnashing of teeth and renting of garments among those who believe that the bureaucratic abrogation of their Constitutional civil rights is nothing short of presaging a long, slow march in lockstep towards the cattle cars of historically failed socialism has apparently finally drawn the notice of the so called mainstream press. This morning while sipping my warm milk and reading the news at my computer I almost spilled the entire cup when I came across the Masslive article on local opinion pursuant to the proposed 4420 legislation. If this does not merit inclusion in the Man Bites Dog File I don't know what would. This article prompted me to write another in the long line of emails to my Representative and Senator.

She Who Must Be Obeyed and I have entered the autumn of our lives and have absolutely no intention of going quietly into that good night without fighting tooth and nail all the way. I get the sense from reading various on line discussions pursuant to 4420 that this proposed bill has really awakened a collective fundamental disgust amongst decent citizens who have said in unison…at the top of their lungs….. ENOUGH… WE HAVE REACHED THE POINT OF NO LONGER ACCEPTING NOR COMPLYING WITH THESE UNCONSTITUTIONAL EDICTS STEMMING FROM A CORRUPT POLITICAL CLASS BENT ON RESETTING THIS COUNTRY’S FUNDEMENTAL PRECEPTS TO THOSE OF HISTORICALLY FAILED SOCIALISTIC EXPERIMENTS OF THE PAST.

Robert Browning once wrote, “Ah….but a man’s reach should exceed his grasp. Or what’s a heaven for?” would seem to be an accurate reflection of where we find ourselves these days in the fight for our civil rights but we can draw comfort from that well known preceptive social commentator George Carlin who said "By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth." GOAL and NES are shining a light on the truth and what we do with this knowledge is up to us.

This morning's letter:

Dear Senator Oliveira,

This news article reports on the opinions of both some police chiefs and elected official’s point of view pursuant to the proposed H.D. 4420 legislation. You will note that they are pointing out the same thing that we have said in our prior emails to you in opposition to the legislation as it is presently written.

The issue of crime in the Commonwealth is not one predicated upon the behavior of citizens who lawfully own firearms……IT IS NOW AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN DRIVEN SOLELY BY THE NON-COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW BY CRIMINALS.

Disarming and criminalizing law-abiding citizens will not in any way, shape or form have any reductive impact on the crime rate in the Commonwealth, what it will do is increase the overall rate of victimization of decent people just trying to provide security and safety for their families and themselves to the best of their collective abilities.


When the time arrives for you to consider the proposed legislation, we respectfully request that you afford serious consideration to the demonstrative negative impact legislation such as this present example will impose upon the citizens of the Commonwealth in general and upon your constituents in particular.

Classifying by blind edict law-abiding people as criminals will not now nor in the future have any constructive impact on the crime situation…..it never has and it never will.

Thank you for your time.

Police, municipal leaders in Western Mass. weigh in on state gun bill

  • Published: Jul. 24, 2023, 7:57 p.m.
Police, municipal leaders in Western Mass. weigh in on state gun bill - masslive.com



Meanwhile, other officials in Western Massachusetts said the gun bill misfired, and that attention was better spent working on bills that would make changes to the justice system.

In a written statement, Springfield Mayor Domenic J. Sarno said the issue of gun violence was best addressed by jailing repeat violent criminal offenders.

“If you want to reduce and help mitigate gun violence, you need to hold these repeat violent criminal offenders in jail,” Sarno said. “To keep releasing these violent criminal offenders back out onto our streets and into our community is foolhardy and only continues the revolving door of our justice system which harms and hurts our community and residents.”

Springfield Police Superintendent Cheryl Clapprood said licensed gun owners are not the issue and added that lawmakers should create legislation that would address the small percentage of criminals who are repeat violent criminal offenders.

“Springfield Police Department fully supports any legislation and action that would help reduce and mitigate criminal activity,” Clapprood said. “Although I believe the intent of this legislation means well, in truth the ... language does nothing to address the issue of illegal guns and ghost guns being used in criminal activity by repeat violent criminal offenders.”

One law that could help, she said, is the Bartley-Fox law, enacted in 1975, which “could substantially help reduce gun violence if it was utilized more by our courts.”

Westfield Mayor Michael A. McCabe, formerly a long-serving police captain in his city prior to being elected mayor, said, “If you remove guns from folks who have lawful ownership, you are removing” a key deterrent against being victimized by criminals.

”We probably have in Massachusetts the toughest gun law application system in the nation, and a gun ownership vetting process second to none,” he said.

The mayor said law-abiding citizens contribute an important role in community safety.

In a July 14 post on Facebook, the Ware Police Department said the bill on Beacon Hill would hamper law enforcement and affect law-abiding citizens.

”A plethora of blatantly unconstitutional proposals litter this travesty of a bill, too many to mention here; however, of particular egregiousness is the criminalization of carrying firearms in certain so-called ‘prohibited locations,’ including businesses and private properties, EVEN WHILE HOLDING A VALID LICENSE TO CARRY. Not even off-duty police officers will be exempted from this appalling mandate,” the post says.

In an interview, Ware Police Chief Shawn C. Crevier said, “Massachusetts has great firearms laws. Legislators should focus their efforts on the court system enforcing penalties for these gun laws.”
 
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I'm thinking we all understand that addicts don't work and therefore would be unable to buy legal drugs......but I could be wrong....
This is hilarious.

First, not all users of drugs are "addicts."

Second, I used to work upstairs from a 'done clinic. In addition to the normal visitors, we had suited professionals who came in first thing in the AM for their dose before going to work in the Financial district. Addiction crosses all levels of success and all socioeconomic groups.

In any event legal drugs don't change the criminal behavior of addicts who commit crimes to buy drugs, legal or otherwise..
You're conflating different activities. Punish people for hurting other people (including property crimes). Do not punish them for taking part it something you don't.

It's insane to apply logic to drugs and drug addicted addicts and is akin to the "why can't we all get along" mentality and is truly effed up shit.
It's insane to think you have any idea what's going on with folks who choose chemicals other than alcohol to relax.
 
This is hilarious.

First, not all users of drugs are "addicts."

Second, I used to work upstairs from a 'done clinic. In addition to the normal visitors, we had suited professionals who came in first thing in the AM for their dose before going to work in the Financial district. Addiction crosses all levels of success and all socioeconomic groups.


You're conflating different activities. Punish people for hurting other people (including property crimes). Do not punish them for taking part it something you don't.


It's insane to think you have any idea what's going on with folks who choose chemicals other than alcohol to relax.
J F C......go back and read his post.
 
There is a belief rampart among the political elite who reside in the State House that there is no discernable viable life in the great empty hinterlands west of 495. Apparently, these self-appointed doyens of what constitutes civilized behavior can not envision the concept that normal law-abiding citizens can freely choose to bear arms in defense of their families and themselves as being anything other than a stark societal aberration that requires the immediate, if not sooner, intervention by the Beautiful Elite who know all that there is to know about everything.

The fiscal year has begun and there is still no agreed upon budget as of yet but the House would rather spend its dwindling time on this nonsense bill. I would like to think that the Senate will actually hold public hearings and be more transparent in their legislative evaluation of the bill and actually take gun owner’s concerns into consideration. The House……which gave us such sterling public servants such as Salvatore DiMasi, Thomas Finneran and Charles Flaherty….all former past Democratic Speakers….and all current convicted felons…..strikes me as a lost cause at its very best.

I am hoping for at least a tiny semblance of fairness during the Senate review but I fully realize that we are no longer in Kansas and despite madly clicking our heals with so much vigor that they sound like electric castanets gone wild they have already run over our dog and are looking at our sister in an unsavory manner. On a more positive note perhaps this entire sordid affair will give birth to a new state slogan that accurately reflects where the Commonwealth has arrived at these days…..Welcome to Massachusetts…..Where Political Mendacity and Obfuscation Have Risen to The Level of A New Art Form. Now that is something to really be proud of………

What appears to have become a rather widespread gnashing of teeth and renting of garments among those who believe that the bureaucratic abrogation of their Constitutional civil rights is nothing short of presaging a long, slow march in lockstep towards the cattle cars of historically failed socialism has apparently finally drawn the notice of the so called mainstream press. This morning while sipping my warm milk and reading the news at my computer I almost spilled the entire cup when I came across the Masslive article on local opinion pursuant to the proposed 4420 legislation. If this does not merit inclusion in the Man Bites Dog File I don't know what would. This article prompted me to write another in the long line of emails to my Representative and Senator.

She Who Must Be Obeyed and I have entered the autumn of our lives and have absolutely no intention of going quietly into that good night without fighting tooth and nail all the way. I get the sense from reading various on line discussions pursuant to 4420 that this proposed bill has really awakened a collective fundamental disgust amongst decent citizens who have said in unison…at the top of their lungs….. ENOUGH… WE HAVE REACHED THE POINT OF NO LONGER ACCEPTING NOR COMPLYING WITH THESE UNCONSTITUTIONAL EDICTS STEMMING FROM A CORRUPT POLITICAL CLASS BENT ON RESETTING THIS COUNTRY’S FUNDEMENTAL PRECEPTS TO THOSE OF HISTORICALLY FAILED SOCIALISTIC EXPERIMENTS OF THE PAST.

Robert Browning once wrote, “Ah….but a man’s reach should exceed his grasp. Or what’s a heaven for?” would seem to be an accurate reflection of where we find ourselves these days in the fight for our civil rights but we can draw comfort from that well know preceptive social commentator George Carlin who said "By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth." GOAL and NES are shining a light on the truth and what we do with this knowledge is up to us.

This morning's letter:

Dear Senator Oliveira,

This news article reports on the opinions of both some police chiefs and elected official’s point of view pursuant to the proposed H.D. 4420 legislation. You will note that they are pointing out the same thing that we have said in our prior emails to you in opposition to the legislation as it is presently written.

The issue of crime in the Commonwealth is not one predicated upon the behavior of citizens who lawfully own firearms……IT IS NOW AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN DRIVEN SOLELY BY THE NON-COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW BY CRIMINALS.

Disarming and criminalizing law-abiding citizens will not in any way, shape or form have any reductive impact on the crime rate in the Commonwealth, what it will do is increase the overall rate of victimization of decent people just trying to provide security and safety for their families and themselves to the best of their collective abilities.


When the time arrives for you to consider the proposed legislation, we respectfully request that you afford serious consideration to the demonstrative negative impact legislation such as this present example will impose upon the citizens of the Commonwealth in general and upon your constituents in particular.

Classifying by blind edict law-abiding people as criminals will not now nor in the future have any constructive impact on the crime situation…..it never has and it never will.

Thank you for your time.

Police, municipal leaders in Western Mass. weigh in on state gun bill

  • Published: Jul. 24, 2023, 7:57 p.m.
Police, municipal leaders in Western Mass. weigh in on state gun bill - masslive.com



Meanwhile, other officials in Western Massachusetts said the gun bill misfired, and that attention was better spent working on bills that would make changes to the justice system.

In a written statement, Springfield Mayor Domenic J. Sarno said the issue of gun violence was best addressed by jailing repeat violent criminal offenders.

“If you want to reduce and help mitigate gun violence, you need to hold these repeat violent criminal offenders in jail,” Sarno said. “To keep releasing these violent criminal offenders back out onto our streets and into our community is foolhardy and only continues the revolving door of our justice system which harms and hurts our community and residents.”

Springfield Police Superintendent Cheryl Clapprood said licensed gun owners are not the issue and added that lawmakers should create legislation that would address the small percentage of criminals who are repeat violent criminal offenders.

“Springfield Police Department fully supports any legislation and action that would help reduce and mitigate criminal activity,” Clapprood said. “Although I believe the intent of this legislation means well, in truth the ... language does nothing to address the issue of illegal guns and ghost guns being used in criminal activity by repeat violent criminal offenders.”

One law that could help, she said, is the Bartley-Fox law, enacted in 1975, which “could substantially help reduce gun violence if it was utilized more by our courts.”

Westfield Mayor Michael A. McCabe, formerly a long-serving police captain in his city prior to being elected mayor, said, “If you remove guns from folks who have lawful ownership, you are removing” a key deterrent against being victimized by criminals.

”We probably have in Massachusetts the toughest gun law application system in the nation, and a gun ownership vetting process second to none,” he said.

The mayor said law-abiding citizens contribute an important role in community safety.

In a July 14 post on Facebook, the Ware Police Department said the bill on Beacon Hill would hamper law enforcement and affect law-abiding citizens.

”A plethora of blatantly unconstitutional proposals litter this travesty of a bill, too many to mention here; however, of particular egregiousness is the criminalization of carrying firearms in certain so-called ‘prohibited locations,’ including businesses and private properties, EVEN WHILE HOLDING A VALID LICENSE TO CARRY. Not even off-duty police officers will be exempted from this appalling mandate,” the post says.

In an interview, Ware Police Chief Shawn C. Crevier said, “Massachusetts has great firearms laws. Legislators should focus their efforts on the court system enforcing penalties for these gun laws.”
These would make some fine Letters-to-the-Editors!
 
One law that could help, she said, is the Bartley-Fox law, enacted in 1975, which “could substantially help reduce gun violence if it was utilized more by our courts.”

Bartley-Fox wasn’t a choice. It requires a mandatory one year in jail. I remember the signs on I91 in the 70’s.

Enough is enough criminals need to be put in jail for a while otherwise they have no respect, or fear, of the legal system.

Look at the guy that took pot shots at the Springfield police officers two back to back firearms charges and twice he cut off his ankle monitor. It is mind boggling that the judicial system put him out on the street to do it yet again.
 
I think it depends on the PD. Would you do this for PD's who are actively against the bill?
How many are? How open in their opposition are they? Is it the individual cop in the donut shop, that may be a Club member, anyways, or will the CoP stand up and say, publicly, "This is a bad idea, don't pass this law."

The Antis love to trot out the Mass Chiefs of Police in the name of "public safety." What will be the public safety result be, if cops can't meet statutory qualification standards.

I know, "But, OUR department is friendly....." Sure they are. Until they have to enforce an enacted law.
 
I saw this post on Reddit today but don't see it here:




All I know is when these clown bring this back up for a vote and there is a chance to testify I am absolutely 100% committed to going to Boston to give these 'legislators' a piece of my mind. I'm not going to live on pins and needles in this state any longer and this whole thing has me mad as hell and these people in Boston need to hear it.
 

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The 70,000+ that died in a year from fentanyl might disagree. The majority of states have made marijuana legal in some form. Most don't even consider it a drug anymore.
My niece died from fentanyl.

A big no on legalizing all drugs....

I'm sorry about your niece. Did she know she was doing fent, or did she buy and consume something she thought was NOT fent?

The reason I ask is because here in my neck of the woods, over 80% of fent deaths come from drug dealers who cut other products with it. People think they're taking xanax or cocaine and they're really getting fent.

Intentionally misleading people into using fent is a big problem with me. If you kill someone you should be punished severely.

It SHOULD be common knowledge that you always test your drugs. For some reason every high schooler isn't being taught how to do so.
 
I'm thinking we all understand that addicts don't work and therefore would be unable to buy legal drugs......but I could be wrong....

Wow. Speak for yourself, man. The number of white-collar addicts who hold down steady professional jobs and still go out to score on street corners would apparently blow your mind. Just because they don't "act like junkies" when you happen to be interacting with them means nothing.

I've known some addicts, both drug- and alcohol-, who were incredibly functional adults in their daily life. They're out there, whether you buy it or not.
 
The reason I ask is because here in my neck of the woods, over 80% of fent deaths come from drug dealers who cut other products with it. People think they're taking xanax or cocaine and they're really getting fent.

As was pointed out above, legalization would definitely help with this. I'm all in favor.

That said, there'd still be a black market. There'd still be unsafe drugs available. You'd cut a LOT of deaths, but never all of them.
 
As was pointed out above, legalization would definitely help with this. I'm all in favor.

That said, there'd still be a black market. There'd still be unsafe drugs available. You'd cut a LOT of deaths, but never all of them.
My bad...I didn't realize legal Fentanyl was safe.
 
Legalizing drugs will not reduce crime and the day will come when we will regret doing it. It's all about the Government getting their hands on more money to piss up a tree.
 
Remember, if Politicians believed legalizing drugs would reduce crime and benefit society they would not tax it so high that they are driving back onto the streets.
 
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