Recommendations for Tactical / Home Defense 12 ga Shotgun Ammo?

Agnotology said:
Anyone have any experience with the shorty buckshot shells? Something like this

www.federalpremium.com

Buy Shorty Shells 12 Gauge Ammo 4 Buck | SH129 4B

Shopping for the Shorty Shells - Learn more about the latest Shorty Shotshell and other hunting or shooting gear at Federal Ammunition.
www.federalpremium.com www.federalpremium.com


Just don't load more than 5+1 in a semi.
Click to expand...
I can run them in a pump with a little rubber thing called OPSOL.
Don't think they'll work in a semi that well.
 
This thread gave me an excuse to hit the range this morning.

Hornady 24 pellet #4 buck: covers the whole silhouette at 15 yards; loses several pellets at 25 yards.

Federal Flitecontrol 9 pellet 00 buck: fist size hole at 15 yards; stays on the head at 25 yards; all pellets accounted for on the silhouette at *65* yards.

Not even going to bother shooting Rio #4 buckshot today: I've patterned it before and I was losing pellets at 10 yards.

Take from this what you will.
 
Last edited:
kalash said:
This thread have me an excuse to hit the range this morning.

Hornady 24 pellet #4 buck: covers the whole silhouette at 15 yards; loses several pellets at 25 yards.

Federal Flitecontrol 9 pellet 00 buck: fist size hole at 15 yards; stays on the head at 25 yards; all pellets accounted for on the silhouette at *65* yards.

Not even going to bother shooting Rio #4 buckshot today: I've patterned it before and I was losing pellets at 10 yards.

Take from this what you will.
Click to expand...
Got a picture of that Hornady box?
 
Last edited:
kalash said:
This thread have me an excuse to hit the range this morning.

Hornady 24 pellet #4 buck: covers the whole silhouette at 15 yards; loses several pellets at 25 yards.

Federal Flitecontrol 9 pellet 00 buck: fist size hole at 15 yards; stays on the head at 25 yards; all pellets accounted for on the silhouette at *65* yards.

Not even going to bother shooting Rio #4 buckshot today: I've patterned it before and I was losing pellets at 10 yards.

Take from this what you will.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yeah, flight control is a game change for longer range shots. Did you happen to shoot any other non-flight control 00 buck? I expect #4 to spread a bit more than 00.

Unfortunately my range does not allow anything except slugs, so patterning for me is a pain in the ass. I need to drive up to the woods in NH
 
Coyote33 said:
Got a picture to that Hornady box?
Click to expand...
It's this:

Hornady Varmint Express 12 Ga Ammo 2-3/4" #4 Buckshot 24 Pellets - Ammo Deals

Hornady Varmint Express 12 Ga Ammo 2-3/4" #4 Buckshot 24 Pellets at Target Sports USA with free shipping available. Enjoy deals on 12 Ga ammo for sale
www.targetsportsusa.com www.targetsportsusa.com



PappyM3 said:
Thanks. Yeah, flight control is a game change for longer range shots. Did you happen to shoot any other non-flight control 00 buck? I expect #4 to spread a bit more than 00.
Click to expand...
Didn't shoot any other 00.

To be fair, #4 performance would be better with a choke but most HD shotguns are cylinder so...
 
I didn't read the whole thread, but I doubt it matters.

Home invaders are cowards who are looking for the softest target they can find. Return fire will drive them away nine times out of ten, meaning I doubt it matters what that return fire is. If I'm at the top of the stairs sending ordnance their way, it's a very rare crook who'll continue toward me regardless of whether I'm sending buck or bird. Or .22 LR, come to that.

I'd go with whatever's easiest to patch in my walls. I'm perfectly okay with not killing the guy. He's never going to make another try at my house. So, from my perspective, the problem is solved.
 
Picton said:
I didn't read the whole thread, but I doubt it matters.

Home invaders are cowards who are looking for the softest target they can find. Return fire will drive them away nine times out of ten, meaning I doubt it matters what that return fire is. If I'm at the top of the stairs sending ordnance their way, it's a very rare crook who'll continue toward me regardless of whether I'm sending buck or bird. Or .22 LR, come to that.

I'd go with whatever's easiest to patch in my walls. I'm perfectly okay with not killing the guy. He's never going to make another try at my house. So, from my perspective, the problem is solved.
Click to expand...
Don’t you think shooting him with weak loads might piss him off enough to keep shooting at you?
 
Picton said:
I didn't read the whole thread, but I doubt it matters.

Home invaders are cowards who are looking for the softest target they can find. Return fire will drive them away nine times out of ten, meaning I doubt it matters what that return fire is. If I'm at the top of the stairs sending ordnance their way, it's a very rare crook who'll continue toward me regardless of whether I'm sending buck or bird. Or .22 LR, come to that.

I'd go with whatever's easiest to patch in my walls. I'm perfectly okay with not killing the guy. He's never going to make another try at my house. So, from my perspective, the problem is solved.
Click to expand...
What, have you forgotten the last two elements of the golden triad? (SSS) [smile]

Mass brandishing BS aside, in most cases simply having the gun is adequate deterrence. Prior to living in Mass, I've had to defend myself w/ a gun twice and pulling the trigger wasn't necessary even in a 3 on 1 and 4 on 1 situation. One was forced entry by 3 bad guys. I'd never shoot unless there were no other option, but the final option should be final.

Here we've had not bad guy problems but we have had bear problems. So far I have been able to shoo them away like bigger and slower squirrels and will continue to try that. Plan B should be effective on up to 450 lb animals.
 
Davidk said:
Don’t you think shooting him with weak loads might piss him off enough to keep shooting at you?
Click to expand...
Some older kids once purposefully shot me in the leg with a Crosman .177 pump pellet rifle. All that did was make me run home to load up my Sheridan 20 cal pump rifle and grab an entire box of pellets. Unfortunately Dad caught me before I could return to the OK Corral. [laugh] 22's and birdshot can be in the piss them off category, though I agree most will hit the tracks at the sight or sound of a gun.

Binary trigger on a 22 LR AR would trip them out.
 
Davidk said:
Don’t you think shooting him with weak loads might piss him off enough to keep shooting at you?
Click to expand...

No.

He's not interested in getting shot. He's not interested in shooting me, either. He's after an easy score.

There are occasional homicidal maniacs out there, like that kid who macheted that mom and her daughter up in New Hampshire some years ago. Those people are FAR more rare than even the most paranoid homeowner can ever count on seeing. That guy? If he's eventually going to come up the stairs and get me, I'll eventually hit him enough times that he'll lose.
 
PappyM3 said:
1. Unless you dumped wax in the load, you need to consider each shot separately, not their combined mass. Each pellet is separately hitting the target and needs to be separately calculated for penetration. Mass, velocity, and diameter/sectional density all need to be considered for each individual pellet.

2. Hydrostatic shock isn’t a thing. When bullets transfer energy into tissue, they do create temporary cavities as the tissue stretches. Whether any of that cavity does damage or becomes permanent depends on whether that particular tissue’s elastic limit has been exceeded. This limit can be lowered through lacerations caused by fragmentation. And the more energy transferred, the bigger the temporary cavity. But most tissues can take a lot of stretch.

Edit: words
Click to expand...
Again, we’re talking about home defense distances. The mass of shot will remain cohesive within that distance.
 
TG Pioneer said:
Again, we’re talking about home defense distances. The mass of shot will remain cohesive within that distance.
Click to expand...
It is not cohesive in the casing. It is not cohesive when it leaves the barrel. It is not cohesive when it strikes the target
 
TG Pioneer said:
Again, we’re talking about home defense distances. The mass of shot will remain cohesive within that distance.
Click to expand...

That is not how physics works. They are close together, but they are still separate and not stuck together.

Here’s an example. Using cylinder, modified, and full chokes with #8 birdshot at ~20’. The longest pellet depth was a little longer, but the vast majority of pellets penetrated the same distance regardless of choke. The point I’m making is that a higher concentration of pellets doesn’t change the fact that they are in fact still separate bodies of mass.

Now, if your intent is face shots, yeah that is going to take someone out of the fight. Might not kill them, but take them out of the fight. A chest shot, they will likely un-ass the area, but they would very likely still be capable of fighting if they wanted to.

Also, if you switch to a #2 or BB birdshot, it could reach FBI recommended penetration. I can’t say I’ve seen gel tests with them.



View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0OFToTFA2O4
 
Davidk said:
It is not cohesive in the casing. It is not cohesive when it leaves the barrel. It is not cohesive when it strikes the target
Click to expand...
I think we’re splitting hairs at this point. While a shotgun isn’t my go to for home defense, I still say birdshot is viable inside the home. For the record, I don’t see a line of people volunteering to stand in front of it.

Your last comment about my “next lethal encounter” isn’t from a guy who simply disagrees with me. It’s a weak ass flex.

Now, @PappyM3 has the class to make a counter argument, back it up, and maybe change a few minds.
 
TG Pioneer said:
I think we’re splitting hairs at this point. While a shotgun isn’t my go to for home defense, I still say birdshot is viable inside the home. For the record, I don’t see a line of people volunteering to stand in front of it.

Your last comment about my “next lethal encounter” isn’t from a guy who simply disagrees with me. It’s a weak ass flex.

Now, @PappyM3 has the class to make a counter argument, back it up, and maybe change a few minds.
Click to expand...
Do more research
 

Similar threads

Micro Red Dot for 365XL recommendations
2 3
Replies
80
Views
908
BostonVI
BostonVI
Range etiquette for ammo usage
2 3
Replies
72
Views
2K
Agnotology
Agnotology
Run to Home Base Fundraising
Replies
1
Views
79
Severus Semi-Auto Snape
Severus Semi-Auto Snape
Shotgun for (Mobile) self defense ?
2
Replies
33
Views
893
weekendracer
weekendracer
Pardons for J6ers
2
Replies
54
Views
2K
slugworth
slugworth
Back
Top Bottom