SKS or AR15?

[kevin9]

The fourth firearm I'm looking for is a "Katrina" gun. Reasonable accuracy, reliability and robustness, decent terminal ballistics and ease of operation are key (and legality given the current MA AWB [spit]). I don't need long range match accuracy: Minute-of-goblin at 200 yards is quite adequate given the sightlines at our place. Nor would I be using it for large game, so I think a carbine length, small fast caliber would be just fine.

The 2 options I'm considering are an SKS or an AR15. For the SKS I'd be looking be looking something unissued or very good condition, probably a Yugo. At a minimum I'd replace the firing pin with a spring-loaded pin so I could use hunting ammo. If it is not a C&R I'd also look to replace the stock with an adjustable one. If it is, then I'd probably get all the US parts needed over time to convert it to a non-C&R. This might be the cheaper option.

If I go with an AR I'd probably assemble it myself, unless I could find what I need cheaper already assembled. Again, I don't need anything tricked out or super fancy. The concerns I've got with an AR are cost, even if I assemble it myself, and reliability and need of/ease of cleaning due to its direct gas action. The possibility that DevilDeval might ban them sometime is a reason in favor of getting one now. Even if I go the SKS route I may just by an AR15 lower receiver now for later use.

Thoughts?

TIA, again
Kevin

 

[Kurtz]

I don't think there's any comparison, I'd go with an AR. I like both but the AR platform can always be added to, change the upper etc.

 

[Twigg]

There's a big difference in cost. The kind of SKS you're talking about should be around $225.00 in local gun shops. Less if you have a C&R and get the cosmilne off it yourself. I have'nt bought an AR (...yet.) but from what I've been reading on this site and other sites as well you might be able to build up an AR for $500.00 $600.00. ( Or more, depending what you want. )

Apples & Oranges.

I'd recommend the SKS & stripped lower.

 

[Jose]

I don't think there's any comparison, I'd go with an AR. I like both but the AR platform can always be added to, change the upper etc.

+1

 

[jhrosier]

The fourth firearm I'm looking for is a "Katrina" gun. Reasonable accuracy, reliability and robustness, decent terminal ballistics and ease of operation are key (and legality given the current MA AWB [spit]). I don't need long range match accuracy: Minute-of-goblin at 200 yards is quite adequate given the sightlines at our place. Nor would I be using it for large game, so I think a carbine length, small fast caliber would be just fine.
......

Thoughts?

TIA, again
Kevin

How about a Winchester or Marlin lever action carbine in .357, .44, or .45 ?

 

[reinbeau]

I think you should get both

 

[Jose]

How about a Winchester or Marlin lever action carbine in .357, .44, or .45 ?

Serious? I would never consider a relic when my life is on the line in a civil distrubance.

Better than nothing, I suppose.

 

[buckeddy]

AR All the Way

Come on man. USA! If your asking me sks or AR its the AR All the Way. Much more veristile and a sound investment. The bottom line is as always the bottom line. If you can build a AR for 500. god speed and post how you did that.(excuse the sarcasim) I would wait, save and buy the American built weapon that will be a source of pride. Your not using it for hunting so the 5.56 round is what you need. I have ten AR's and I have found buying parts kits for stripped uppers/lowers is more expensive than buying them built. As far as what type of lower is best I like Stag Arms. He has been building for other major mfg. for some time and if you can stand a buck on the lower it will be just as mil spec as the next guys.

Kick back and take it all in. Dont be like me and act on impulse!

 

[SKS Ray]

SHTF gun = AK47, plain and simple because it will constantly work when dirty and is proven in any enviorment.
I recently recomended a Yugo SKS to a friend of mine who wanted a SHTF rifle simply because he didn't have the money for an AK and wanted reliability, ease of loading and maintanence, weight, overal use, plus a bayonet feature.
The AR is a great rifle and capable of way better accuracy than any other semi auto on the market I know of but when it comes to today's laws and urban close quarters enviorment, for me hands down the AK is my choice.
If you can afford an AR, you can grab a top of the line AK47.

 

[Davidk]

For fun get either. For plinking, get either. For personal defense, get an AR in 6.8 SPC caliber which far exceeds 5.56 or an AK for stopping power. Only problem is is that 6.8 costs about 3x that of 5.56.

 

[jhrosier]

Serious? I would never consider a relic when my life is on the line in a civil distrubance.

Better than nothing, I suppose.

A lever action carbine is light, fast, reliable, effective at short range, and most important, low profile (PC).
Hardly more of a relic than the SKS and much less likely to be confiscated by the "authorities".

More truth than you know in "Better than nothing".

There is something to be said for having a handy carbine that shares ammo with your handgun.

Jose, the number of threads on this subject in many internet forums would suggest that there is a wide diversity of opinion on this matter. That means that your opinion is also valid.

 

[Scrivener]

Neither an SKS nor any lever-action carbine qualifies as an "assault weapon."

If you want cheap and adequate for your stated purpose, the SKS will more than suffice. As noted, a lever-action carbine would do the job, as would a Marlin Camp Rifle.

Given sufficient funds, I'd buy the AR. Now that purchasing any firearm has become a political statement, I'd go for the gun the really spits in the face of gun-grabbers: The instantly-recognizable, customizable, clearly "large capacity," in your face, up your ass AR-15!

 

[sheriff dudley]

Given sufficient funds, I'd buy the AR. Now that purchasing any firearm has become a political statement, I'd go for the gun the really spits in the face of gun-grabbers: The instantly-recognizable, customizable, clearly "large capacity," in your face, up your ass AR-15!

AMEN Scrivener ill go a Plus TWO on that one!!!
Plus if TSHTFan you can get more AMMO off the creep Jack-Booted
A$$ Hole that is trying to take Your protection piece,( " if he happens
to fall down and bump his head before you do " ) its easier to find 5.56mm
or.223 Ammo than it will be 762X39 if tshtf

Just my Two Pennies Sheriff Dudley.

 

[Jose]

deleted.

 

[Jose]

A lever action carbine is light

So is an M4gery

fast

Not as fast as an M4gery

reliable

So is a quality M4gery

effective at short range

So is an M4gery, and an M4gery beats any pistol caliber carbine at any distance past 50.

and most important, low profile (PC)

Not a concern to me.

 

[SKS Ray]

This rifle has an attached bayonet ready to be snapped into fixed position instantly. Not too mention stripper clips that can be loaded in one sweep of your thumb. Some people can load them faster than most can change magazines.

Some also have grenade launchers that serve as muzzle protectors, plus flip up night sights that glow in the dark.

Then there are these:

They run about $350 and can take these:

which hold 75 rounds and run about $90, or you can get a pack of 4 - 30 rounders for about $50.
Like I said before, the AR is a great rifle, and the US has used the design for many years with great success, but do you really wanna pay almost $1000 for a reliable AR or pay $200, or even $400 for a weapon like the SKS or AK47 which you can go prone in a mud pit packing it full of crap and stil having it function flawlessly with Sergei Gavrilovich Simonov's or Mikhail Kalashnikov's designs that have served numerous third world countries for years and are still in use today?

One note on your original post.... changing out a C&R SKS with US parts to keep it legal is next to impossible because as noted on numerous forums, no one makes a fixed postition US manufactured magazine that works well. Unfortunately, given the number of parts to be changed to make one 922r compliant, you can't do it w/out swapping the magazine.
Myself I'd take a factory SKS with standard C&R features that I know functions over a gamble on a US made aftermaket magazine that hangs up and screws you in a LOD situation.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

For fun get either. For plinking, get either. For personal defense, get an AR in 6.8 SPC caliber which far exceeds 5.56 or an AK for stopping power. Only problem is is that 6.8 costs about 3x that of 5.56.

I believe it also goes through barrels at a rate several times that of the .223/5.56.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'd opt for the AR15, Pre-ban CAR-15 in particular. Look at my reply in your other thread.

 

[drgrant]

There is no comparison between the two.

If you can't afford an AR, then get an AK. WASR-10s can be had for
cheap money.

SKSes are fine rifles in their own right, but for an SHTF gun, I think they're
vastly inferior when you can do better with detacheable magazine fed rifles. The
only reason I'd ever consider one as an SHTF gun is if I was stuck with an
FID card and thus could not buy an AK or an AR.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

A lever action carbine is light, fast, reliable, effective at short range, and most important, low profile (PC).

In MA, anything constituting a firearm is most certainly not "low
profile".

I really don't get where this misnomer comes from. If people think that
a LEO is going to let a lever action squeak by while they won't let an AR
or an AK squeak by, they're sorely mistaken. The people you're interacting
with are either out to confiscate your guns or they're not, it's that
simple.

For instance, I doubt any Katrina evacuees got a free pass on the
gun confiscation BS because they had a lever action rifle. Plenty
of old and new rifles and handguns were confiscated with no regard
to what they actually were. Family heirlooms were stolen despite
the fact that the owners had no intent of using them as a combat
firearm.

The only real advantage to a lever gun as an SHTF rifle is that it only
requires an FID card, and there's no magazine to buy or
lose. Otherwise, it's not all that wonderful. A 30-30 loaded
up with nice JSPs isnt a bad choice, But I'd much rather have an AR or
an AK with like 20-30 rounds of ammo on tap.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

For fun get either. For plinking, get either. For personal defense, get an AR in 6.8 SPC caliber which far exceeds 5.56 or an AK for stopping power. Only problem is is that 6.8 costs about 3x that of 5.56.

I don't get why anyone would want 6.8 SPC. The caliber is obscure and
essentially unobtainium. (I've been to over a dozen gun stores and I've
not seen ONE that sold it!) Unless you can stock up a bunch of it before
hand, I don't see it being a viable SHTF choice. If one thinks terminal
effectiveness is a problem, it's usually an ammo issue. If .223/556 NATO
is that bad in your mind, then it's that much easier to step up to .308 Win,
which is more readily availible than 6.8 SPC. At least I can go to most
gun stores and pick up a box of FGM Match 168 grainers for $20 or so.

Maybe in 5-10 years things will be different WRT 6.8 SPC, but as of
right now it's still basically an obscuratron wildcat caliber in the same
vein as a bunch of those weird african dangerous game calibers.

FWIW, .223/556 NATO and 7.62 x 39 seem to work "good enough" for
about half the world over. If it was that "inferior" compared to 6.8SPC
then everyone would already be tooling up and converting their
rifles over to it. Even on the 5.56 front alone, MK262 MOD0/1 and
a lot of other heavy bullet OTM loads are drastic enough of an
improvement in terminal effectiveness that many entities have ditched
their interest in 6.8 SPC as a result.



-Mike

 

[flotter390]

The fourth firearm I'm looking for is a "Katrina" gun. Reasonable accuracy, reliability and robustness, decent terminal ballistics and ease of operation are key (and legality given the current MA AWB [spit]). I don't need long range match accuracy: Minute-of-goblin at 200 yards is quite adequate given the sightlines at our place. Nor would I be using it for large game, so I think a carbine length, small fast caliber would be just fine.

The 2 options I'm considering are an SKS or an AR15. For the SKS I'd be looking be looking something unissued or very good condition, probably a Yugo. At a minimum I'd replace the firing pin with a spring-loaded pin so I could use hunting ammo. If it is not a C&R I'd also look to replace the stock with an adjustable one. If it is, then I'd probably get all the US parts needed over time to convert it to a non-C&R. This might be the cheaper option.

If I go with an AR I'd probably assemble it myself, unless I could find what I need cheaper already assembled. Again, I don't need anything tricked out or super fancy. The concerns I've got with an AR are cost, even if I assemble it myself, and reliability and need of/ease of cleaning due to its direct gas action. The possibility that DevilDeval might ban them sometime is a reason in favor of getting one now. Even if I go the SKS route I may just by an AR15 lower receiver now for later use.

Thoughts?

TIA, again
Kevin

Keven this is one of my "KATRINA GUNS". Pre ban NORINCO 56 /s w/ 1 75rd top load drum, and 1 75rd norinco dr and 1 100 rd norinco drum. these are in the state and are cheap to shoot and there is a load of stuff out there for them.
Fred

 

[ScottS]

When people talk about the "cost" of a weapon, especially a SHTF one (whatever that is), the often mistakenly focus on the purchase price of the weapon and not the Total Cost of Ownership. You also have to add in magazines and other accessories, and enough ammo not only to last until the S is no longer is H'ing TF, but also to practice with so the gun is confirmed reliable and you have enough skill with it that having it is more than just a "statement."

Having said that, it would be hard to beat the TCO of an SKS considering its low initial purchase price, reliance on stripper clips vice magazines (even inexpensive AK ones), and use of what it arguably the cheapest center-fire rifle ammo you can buy. Lower TCO means you can shoot more, which is not only important for skill with the SHTF weapon, but is also a virtue in itself. And if I lived behind The Iron Curtain in Occupied MA, I'd damn sure own a rifle that didn't have a single evil feature.

I'd sure hate to buy enough 6.8mmSPC to both practice with it and stockpile it.

 

[Jose]

Let the SHTF in style

 

[flotter390]

Let the SHTF in style

YES !!! A MODEL 27A - CHEAP TO SHOOT - 45 ACP

I HAVE ONE ALSO AND FUN TO SHOOT.

FRED

 

[ScottS]

Let the SHTF in style

You know, I never liked the semi- version with the long barrel, but then I saw one of the M1A1-style cut to be an SBR, and man was that gorgeous. I started having a serious jones for an SBR semi Thompson. Oh, man, that's dangerous.

Let's see...initial purchase...Tax Stamp...'smithing...

"Hey, honey? You haven't gotten me anything for Christmas yet, have you?"

 

[Jose]

He liked it too:

 

[Moderator]

Wow, I have always hear AK vs AR but never SKS vs AR. I would go with the AR. Like others have said, you can configure it to your specs and needs (with respect to your state laws).

 

[Scrivener]

SKSes [sic] are fine rifles in their own right, but for an SHTF gun, I think they're vastly inferior when you can do better with magazine fed rifles.

An SKS IS a "magazine fed rifle." Specifically, it has a 10-round integral box magazine (unless it was altered by fitting an aftermarket adapter allowing it to take AK detachable mags). For that matter, so is a Garand, Krag-Jorgensen, '03/'03A3 Springfield and a P-17 Enfield.

 

[ScottS]

An SKS IS a "magazine fed rifle." Specifically, it has a 10-round integral box magazine (unless it was altered by fitting an aftermarket adapter allowing it to take AK detachable mags). For that matter, so is a Garand, Krag-Jorgensen, '03/'03A3 Springfield and a P-17 Enfield.

In addition, while I'm pretty fast on an AR-pattern gun when it comes to mag changes, I bow down to the man who can make a fast mag change on an AK-pattern gun. I think a stripper clip is probably so close in speed that the difference is insignificant.