I have one of each and then some so I suggest you get the AR....then next month get the sks....you're gonna get more guns right? I don't htink you'll need to bug out or require a Katrina gun before the end of January so get the fun one first....![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
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SKS or AR15?
- Thread starter kevin9
- Start date
I've stayed out so far, but against my better judgment I'll join
the fray. Frankly, I don't understand the basis for this question.
You are asking about 2 **very** different firearms. Why not compare the
SKS to the M14, or a Winchester 94 or a Muzzleloader? Firearms are tools,
and they must be matched to the task at hand.
Perhaps a more effective approach would be to define your needs,
your resources available (Money, Skills, Time) and work to find the
best fit for that.
Low budget, FID, minimal cleaning time, minimal range time, some hunting = SKS
High skill, medium -> high budget, precision minded, small game only = AR15
High Skill, high budget, plenty of range time, large game = M14
medium Skill, medium budget, medium range time, large game = PTR91/ FAL
Low Skill, medium budget, medium range time, medium game = AK47
Medium Skill, low budget, medium range time, large game, FID, discreet = lever
yada, yada....
Match the tool to the job.
the fray. Frankly, I don't understand the basis for this question.
You are asking about 2 **very** different firearms. Why not compare the
SKS to the M14, or a Winchester 94 or a Muzzleloader? Firearms are tools,
and they must be matched to the task at hand.
Perhaps a more effective approach would be to define your needs,
your resources available (Money, Skills, Time) and work to find the
best fit for that.
Low budget, FID, minimal cleaning time, minimal range time, some hunting = SKS
High skill, medium -> high budget, precision minded, small game only = AR15
High Skill, high budget, plenty of range time, large game = M14
medium Skill, medium budget, medium range time, large game = PTR91/ FAL
Low Skill, medium budget, medium range time, medium game = AK47
Medium Skill, low budget, medium range time, large game, FID, discreet = lever
yada, yada....
Match the tool to the job.
I look at it this way. The SKS has been around for years serving many diferent countries. The only reason the AK47 replaced it was because of select fire capability, detachable magazines, and more rugged design with loose tolerances.
The SKS is cheap, still inexpensive to shoot, durable, battle proven, easy to field strip and clean, and easy to get used to shooting.
Unless you want a better feeling stock, or a scope thats had a mount drilled and tapped to the side of the receiver, there is no need to do any modifications to an SKS. Muzzle breaks don't really work for it, neither do receiver cover mounts or detachable magazines.
The rifle's design is simple and practical with bayonet permanently attached, cleaning kit in the butt stock, and cleaning rod clipped in place. Throw a sling on it and get a few chest pouch bandoliers, some stripper clips, and you're good to go for a Katrina situation rifle.
Now if you've got the money and want something you can throw all kinds of tactical stuff on, get an AR.
The SKS is cheap, still inexpensive to shoot, durable, battle proven, easy to field strip and clean, and easy to get used to shooting.
Unless you want a better feeling stock, or a scope thats had a mount drilled and tapped to the side of the receiver, there is no need to do any modifications to an SKS. Muzzle breaks don't really work for it, neither do receiver cover mounts or detachable magazines.
The rifle's design is simple and practical with bayonet permanently attached, cleaning kit in the butt stock, and cleaning rod clipped in place. Throw a sling on it and get a few chest pouch bandoliers, some stripper clips, and you're good to go for a Katrina situation rifle.
Now if you've got the money and want something you can throw all kinds of tactical stuff on, get an AR.
You certainly make interesting points, but much of what you wrote doesn't apply to the OP's question. He didn't say, "Gosh, golly, what's a good gun." When a thread has gone on for 7 pages, sometimes I find it worthwhile for me to go back and reread the original post to make sure my answer is still related to the question. Otherwise I get pulled aside by the thread creep. Here's what the OP said, my emphasis added:
With that in mind, much of the long range/large game thing falls off the table. Also, note the range and "precision" requirements in the question.
J
Jose
Actually, I chose an AR because I want a rifle I am familiar with, has superior ergonomics, can easily accept optical sights, has outstanding accuracy, and has been battle proven for almost 40 years.
Hanging junk off it is the last of my priorities. In fact, my flat top carbine has two add ons: an Aimpoint CompC on a Larue M68 mount and a Midwest Industries rear backup sight.
Pretty soon it will get a light mounted to the side of the front sight base, that way I don't need to add railed handguards.
KISS
Good point. Thanks for pointing that out. All of the firearms on that list match
the requirements, some are just over-achievers!
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
kevin9
NES Member
That's probably the best piece of advice I've seen in this whole thread. Problem is as a firearms newbie I've got no personal connections into the shooting community.
Anyone wanna offer this newbie a chance to try out an SKS, AR15 and AK47 before I make up my mind?
I love that line.Good point. Thanks for pointing that out. All of the firearms on that list match the requirements, some are just over-achievers!
While I'm warming to the SKS subject, allow me to make one specific suggestion: Norinco SKS Paratrooper. In addition to the "standard" SKS virtues, not only is it not a C&R weapon (so you don't have to sweat the C&R status if you "accessorize"), it's compact (16" barrel), relatively cheap (most I've seen on GunBroker lately have been under about $275), and pretty complete. The only thing I might add is a synthetic (non-folding) stock and a set of William Fiber Optic sights, and that's just personal preference. Plus, for all practical purposes you're flying under the Deval-radar, which may be important in a state that registers everything that shoots. Doesn't take too much to do a quick sort on the database that says "IF type = AW THEN confiscate = YES."
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I have an SKS an I'm in Leominster. You can try it if you'd like. I belong to No. Leominster and Lunenburg. If we can schedule time when MrTwigg's available, you can try a WASR at the same time I'll bet,
Technically, it's a SAR-1 and I'd be happy to share. Besides I really need to see how that 75 round drum functions !
A ray of realistic thought
Katrina Gun??? Did you learn anything from what happened in New Orleans? Go to Google video and watch the videos of federal agents and police from other states going door to door confiscating firearms. They were doing this is even in affluent unaffected areas of the city. This was in the pro-gun south. You live in a red town. You’re police chief doesn’t want you to own a firearm on a normal day. What do you think his number one priority will be when a state of emergency is declared and he has unlimited authority? Of a course it will be rendering aid right???? The socialist pigs that run this state would never confiscate your guns????? What’s the purpose of the info on the FA-10 form??? Do you know that this info is available instantly online to any law enforcement agency in the state? Do you think that the storm troopers here want to walk door to door??? They’re too lazy for that, unless OT is involved. To prove me wrong why don’t you ask him to sign the NRA’s pledge. Here’s a reference to it, if you don’t know about it:
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=203&issue=55
Read this to see what the IACP and gun grabbers think about the pledge:
http://www.gunguys.com/?p=1359 (They have a lot of articles on this site that Duval would love). I like the statement “The NRA takes their orders from police”. I take my direction from my God given rights which are only stated, not granted, in the bill or rights.
When the storm troopers are kicking in your door, are you going to remind them of “Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006”. This law makes it illegal for any law enforcement agency that accepts any federal funds (that’s all of them) to confiscate firearms during a state of emergency. What do you think their reply will be??? “FU sue us!!!” perhaps??? Why should they care, they have their firearms and the politicians will have protection in the form of Blackwater mercenaries like the connected in New Orleans had.
Just something to remember the next time that you fill out an FA-10…..
Katrina Gun??? Did you learn anything from what happened in New Orleans? Go to Google video and watch the videos of federal agents and police from other states going door to door confiscating firearms. They were doing this is even in affluent unaffected areas of the city. This was in the pro-gun south. You live in a red town. You’re police chief doesn’t want you to own a firearm on a normal day. What do you think his number one priority will be when a state of emergency is declared and he has unlimited authority? Of a course it will be rendering aid right???? The socialist pigs that run this state would never confiscate your guns????? What’s the purpose of the info on the FA-10 form??? Do you know that this info is available instantly online to any law enforcement agency in the state? Do you think that the storm troopers here want to walk door to door??? They’re too lazy for that, unless OT is involved. To prove me wrong why don’t you ask him to sign the NRA’s pledge. Here’s a reference to it, if you don’t know about it:
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=203&issue=55
Read this to see what the IACP and gun grabbers think about the pledge:
http://www.gunguys.com/?p=1359 (They have a lot of articles on this site that Duval would love). I like the statement “The NRA takes their orders from police”. I take my direction from my God given rights which are only stated, not granted, in the bill or rights.
When the storm troopers are kicking in your door, are you going to remind them of “Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006”. This law makes it illegal for any law enforcement agency that accepts any federal funds (that’s all of them) to confiscate firearms during a state of emergency. What do you think their reply will be??? “FU sue us!!!” perhaps??? Why should they care, they have their firearms and the politicians will have protection in the form of Blackwater mercenaries like the connected in New Orleans had.
Just something to remember the next time that you fill out an FA-10…..
I don't think you use enough question marks.
![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
kevin9
NES Member
And your suggestion is...???
My suggestion is that if you're purchasing a firearm only for a katrina event, you are wasting your money. Unless it turns out to be a "end of the world as we know it" event, your wasting your money. Your firearm will wind up rusting in a FEMA trailer in perpetuity.
kevin9
NES Member
I suppose I should have mentioned that I do plan to shoot it from time to time, plinking, practicing and what-not, so I don't expect it to be a safe queen. I assumed that was obvious. Sorry.
Thank you for your "suggestion". I'll take my chances. Besides how can I justify my new "hobby" if I don't actually buy some guns.
Thank you for your "suggestion". I'll take my chances. Besides how can I justify my new "hobby" if I don't actually buy some guns.
J
Jose
There's a bit of a difference between Florida and Massachusetts, and things aren't going to be getting any better here.
Yeah, but you're making a bunch of half-baked assumptions about
gun confiscation and disasters, that may not even prove to be
true if such a disaster does happen. I'd much rather have it now
and worry about it (possibly) getting taken away later. I (and many others
here) will simply deal with that issue if/when it becomes one.
-Mike
+1 to that! I'll be grabbing an SKS on my C&R sometime really soon!
I personally like the ballistics of the 7.62X39 better than 5.56X45 (though not by much...7.62X54R or 7.62X51 are better IMHO) can't beat the price. Love the idea of the itegral bayonette, and how cheap and easy to buy stripper clips are, you can hardly afford to keep ammo in boxes!
Arrrrr
-Weer'd Beard
You have that problem too huh ?![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Don't even own an SKS or a 7.62X39, yet I have half a case of ammo that's all on clips!
Arrrr
-Weer'd Beard
Having served in the military in Vietnam, I have a slightly different point of view on this subject.
Since most people owning a "Katrina" gun won't be functioning in a "Unit" using "Unit tactics" and needing interchageablity of weapons, ammo and such; it seems to me that what you would use a "Katrina" gun for would be very limited uses.
You probably couldn't defend yourself against a larger force, equally armed.
If for some reason a gang of "Mad Max" types try to take your position, and you are alone or with only a few other defenders, you're going to have a tough day.
So I think what it comes down to in many cases, is protecting your home from small groups (1 to 4 say) who are in the area of your house, or from scumbags who might try to break in and take your food and water if you have it.
Remember, with a serious SHTF situation, they won't be dropping off bread and milk and batteries at your local Stop and Shop on a regular basis. There will be people willing to hurt you, because they want to survive. The more serious the disaster, and the longer the recovery, the more dangerous it becomes.
I'm always long winded,, but I guess what I'm getting to is first of all, HAVE A WEAPON. Have more than one. Have plenty of ammunition. If you have a lever model carbine in .357, it's a lot better than a baseball bat.
From what I saw in Vietnam, enemy using weapons from WW1, wrapped with bamboo for lack of stocks and to keep the barrels from exploding, if you have the mindset to survive, you can do it with almost anything.
I don't picture myself in a rice paddy or a muddy river bank again. I do see myself hiding in my cellar as a bunker, shooting out the windows at any scum I see trying to hurt my family or take our supplies.
If I were in the worst of conditions, and it was long term...say more than a month...I might want the AK. It "IS" a very reliable gun for sure. Matter of fact, I'd feel better with several AK's and several thousand rounds of ammunition used judiciously.
But I also remember the Korean merchants in the LA riot who held off robbers with .22's. They were determined to hold their ground, and they did. No one wants to get shot with a .22. And if I remember correctly, more people have been killed with .22's than any other round. Even if it isn't true, it's real cheap to buy three or four Marlin Mod 60 semi autos and ten thousand rounds of ammo for it, and shoot like hell.
I just bought an AR yesterday, but only because I don't like someone telling me I can't do something I want to do. I'm funny that way. Screw Deval Patrick, I want it now, and never even wanted one before this, I had my share in SE Asia.
I already own more than enough firearms to protect my home and family, and enough ammo to shoot them for quite awhile.
You can't go wrong with an SKS, and AK or a AR.
If I could have my choice it would be an M14, but I can't get one with full auto features, so I settled for an AR semi auto. I don't need to dress it up. It's not the most powerful round in the world, but you can shoot it pretty fast and reload pretty fast.
My Mosin Nagants and .308 bolt action guns would do a fine job anyway.
Fact is I just WANT an AR!
Since most people owning a "Katrina" gun won't be functioning in a "Unit" using "Unit tactics" and needing interchageablity of weapons, ammo and such; it seems to me that what you would use a "Katrina" gun for would be very limited uses.
You probably couldn't defend yourself against a larger force, equally armed.
If for some reason a gang of "Mad Max" types try to take your position, and you are alone or with only a few other defenders, you're going to have a tough day.
So I think what it comes down to in many cases, is protecting your home from small groups (1 to 4 say) who are in the area of your house, or from scumbags who might try to break in and take your food and water if you have it.
Remember, with a serious SHTF situation, they won't be dropping off bread and milk and batteries at your local Stop and Shop on a regular basis. There will be people willing to hurt you, because they want to survive. The more serious the disaster, and the longer the recovery, the more dangerous it becomes.
I'm always long winded,, but I guess what I'm getting to is first of all, HAVE A WEAPON. Have more than one. Have plenty of ammunition. If you have a lever model carbine in .357, it's a lot better than a baseball bat.
From what I saw in Vietnam, enemy using weapons from WW1, wrapped with bamboo for lack of stocks and to keep the barrels from exploding, if you have the mindset to survive, you can do it with almost anything.
I don't picture myself in a rice paddy or a muddy river bank again. I do see myself hiding in my cellar as a bunker, shooting out the windows at any scum I see trying to hurt my family or take our supplies.
If I were in the worst of conditions, and it was long term...say more than a month...I might want the AK. It "IS" a very reliable gun for sure. Matter of fact, I'd feel better with several AK's and several thousand rounds of ammunition used judiciously.
But I also remember the Korean merchants in the LA riot who held off robbers with .22's. They were determined to hold their ground, and they did. No one wants to get shot with a .22. And if I remember correctly, more people have been killed with .22's than any other round. Even if it isn't true, it's real cheap to buy three or four Marlin Mod 60 semi autos and ten thousand rounds of ammo for it, and shoot like hell.
I just bought an AR yesterday, but only because I don't like someone telling me I can't do something I want to do. I'm funny that way. Screw Deval Patrick, I want it now, and never even wanted one before this, I had my share in SE Asia.
I already own more than enough firearms to protect my home and family, and enough ammo to shoot them for quite awhile.
You can't go wrong with an SKS, and AK or a AR.
If I could have my choice it would be an M14, but I can't get one with full auto features, so I settled for an AR semi auto. I don't need to dress it up. It's not the most powerful round in the world, but you can shoot it pretty fast and reload pretty fast.
My Mosin Nagants and .308 bolt action guns would do a fine job anyway.
Fact is I just WANT an AR!
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kevin9
NES Member
Thanks for your observations and suggestions. It's good to hear from people with some measure of experience.
(and yes if the state gets so uppity as to ban/restrict other AR parts, or eliminate grandfathering then I may be screwed, but I may take that chance.)
That factor is working with me too. I've just about decided to at least buy a stripped lower regardless of what else I may get.
(and yes if the state gets so uppity as to ban/restrict other AR parts, or eliminate grandfathering then I may be screwed, but I may take that chance.)
![[cheers]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/018.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
TonyD
One Shot One Maggie's Drawers
My preference would be a 14.5 " M4/A2 platform with a Wylde or NATO chamber. KISS, simple and effective.
ETA: Shit, I didn't realize there were 9 pages on this subject.
depicts - very good summation, Semper Fi!
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Great post Depicts. Let me add something that you sort of touched on.
While it's fun to kick around the idea of a "Katrina" gun, the fact is that virtually anything that goes BANG! will work around here.
We live in Mass, where there are fewer households with any kind of firearm than many (all?) other areas.
Roving thugs are going to be opportunistic, and will likely take the path of least resistance. A shot from ANY gun is going to send them running to the next (probably gunless) house.
If they're out to steal, and hear a shot from a .22 sent in their direction, there's no reason for them to stay and duke it out when there's plenty of other unarmed residences all around.
