SKS or AR15?

Scrivener said:
An SKS IS a "magazine fed rifle." Specifically, it has a 10-round integral box magazine (unless it was altered by fitting an aftermarket adapter allowing it to take AK detachable mags). For that matter, so is a Garand, Krag-Jorgensen, '03/'03A3 Springfield and a P-17 Enfield.
Click to expand...

Yes, I should have said "detacheable" magazine. [rolleyes]

-Mike
 
I'm an AR guy, but for the criteria you mentioned, I would get an SKS. Uncle Henry's is full of them for $125-$200. I would definitely buy it from an individual (don't know if that is an option for you where you live) as opposed to a dealer.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. It appears that the majority leans towards an AR, but not to the point that my mind is made up, yet.

To those that suggested an AK, my question there is availability in MA of both the gun and the ammo. I've looked around some for AKs and here don't appear to be nearly as many options as for AR. The nice thing with an AR is that they appear much easier to assemble yourself which gives many more options. Also, AKs and ARs are both EAWs in MA which causes some constraints.

The nice thing with the SKS is that the fixed mag means it is not an EAW in MA. That means it can be loaded up with all kinds of "evil" features as long as it's not in C&R status. If I go that route then I plan to use a fixed replacement magazine (Cabelas carries them), not a detachable one. Most of the issues I've read about with replacement SKS magazines seem to be with detachable ones.

I guess I've still not completely made up my mind. The AR would be more. My initial cost estimate is that I can buy and totally redo an SKS for under $500 whereas an AR in parts will be at least $100 more, probably closer to $200. Then again, if I skip the shotgun and SKS and just get the AR....decisions decisions.

Thanks.
Kevin
 
kevin9 said:
The nice thing with the SKS is that the fixed mag means it is not an EAW in MA. That means it can be loaded up with all kinds of "evil" features as long as it's not in C&R status. If I go that route then I plan to use a fixed replacement magazine (Cabelas carries them), not a detachable one. Most of the issues I've read about with replacement SKS magazines seem to be with detachable ones.
Click to expand...

Don't waste your time with aftermarket SKS parts, especially anything magazine related, even the fixed ones. Theres a reason why the people on Survivor's SKS boards are pleading with Tapco to come out with a USA made fixed mag because their products are some of the only ones that actually work. The biggest complaint is that there aren't enough US made parts to legally alter an SKS without changing the fixed magazine to a US made one.
Even if a reliable company like Tapco did come out with a working US made fixed mag, I wouldn't trust it in a rifle I may have to depend on for survival.
 
Jose said:
+1,000,000. If you live in a state where person to person sales are legal (most of them), have at least one rifle and one pistol where no paper can trace it back to you.
Click to expand...

Nice thought, but proper sale protocol requires filing a form with the authorities. (At least here in MA). Even a long gun bought out of state must have the proper form filed when brought home...

I'm going to vote for the AR in this poll. How about this for an option, though:
View attachment 373

A nice carbine in 9mm or .40 that uses the same mags as a Beretta 92 or 96. Just a thought for the more avant garde among us.
 
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Jose said:
+1,000,000. If you live in a state where person to person sales are legal (most of them), have at least one rifle and one pistol where no paper can trace it back to you.
Click to expand...
Darn good idea, unfortunately, as I understand the laws (please correct me if I am wrong), this is not possible/legal in MA. Although in-state person-to-person sales are legal the seller must report them via an FA10 form. Interstate sales must go through an FFL holder. Heaven forbid that a resident of MA buy a gun that The State doesn't know about [sad2]
 
Executive said:
Nice thought, but proper sale protocol requires filing a form with the authorities. (At least here in MA). Even a long gun bought out of state must have the proper form filed when brought home...

I'm going to vote for the AR in this poll. How about this for an option, though:
View attachment 373

A nice carbine in 9mm or .40 that uses the same mags as a Beretta 92 or 96. Just a thought for the more avant garde among us.
Click to expand...
Interesting suggestion. Actually, if I could afford it I'd seriously consider a Kel-Tec SU16.
 
kevin9 said:
Thanks for all the suggestions. It appears that the majority leans towards an AR, but not to the point that my mind is made up, yet.

To those that suggested an AK, my question there is availability in MA of both the gun and the ammo. I've looked around some for AKs and here don't appear to be nearly as many options as for AR. The nice thing with an AR is that they appear much easier to assemble yourself which gives many more options. Also, AKs and ARs are both EAWs in MA which causes some constraints.

The nice thing with the SKS is that the fixed mag means it is not an EAW in MA. That means it can be loaded up with all kinds of "evil" features as long as it's not in C&R status. If I go that route then I plan to use a fixed replacement magazine (Cabelas carries them), not a detachable one. Most of the issues I've read about with replacement SKS magazines seem to be with detachable ones.

I guess I've still not completely made up my mind. The AR would be more. My initial cost estimate is that I can buy and totally redo an SKS for under $500 whereas an AR in parts will be at least $100 more, probably closer to $200. Then again, if I skip the shotgun and SKS and just get the AR....decisions decisions.

Thanks.
Kevin
Click to expand...

Uh, Kevin?

You are aware, aren't you, that the vast majority of AK-47 clones out there use the same ammo as the SKS???

Yeah, there are versions that use the rarer 5.45X39mm, but I'd say those variants are outnumbered by the 7.62X39mm-chambered AK clones at least 4:1...
 
Garys said:
Although you have several good points, this isn't one of them. 7.62 x39 has become very expensive and for a while was hard to find at just about any price.

Gary
Click to expand...
While it's gone up to be sure, it's still cheaper than (most) 5.56 and (all) 7.62x51. Sure am glad I stockpiled.

By the way, AIM Surplus still has 7.62x39 for $145/1K. While it's not $75/1K like it used to be, still not too bad. Most M193 5.56 is about $220/1K.
 
ScottS said:
While it's gone up to be sure, it's still cheaper than (most) 5.56 and (all) 7.62x51. Sure am glad I stockpiled.

By the way, AIM Surplus still has 7.62x39 for $145/1K. While it's not $75/1K like it used to be, still not too bad. Most M193 5.56 is about $220/1K.
Click to expand...


+1. While 7.62 x 39 has gone up in price, it's still more affordable than
any of the other mainstream centerfire rifle cartridges. Last case of 1000
rounds of Wolf HP I got was like $176, last case of .223 I got was $189, with
the dealer I got it from only having one case at that price. (I was
extremely lucky and noticed a case of PMC 223A lurking in a local gun store..)


-Mike
 
kevin9 said:
Thanks for all the suggestions. It appears that the majority leans towards an AR, but not to the point that my mind is made up, yet.

To those that suggested an AK, my question there is availability in MA of both the gun and the ammo. I've looked around some for AKs and here don't appear to be nearly as many options as for AR. The nice thing with an AR is that they appear much easier to assemble yourself which gives many more options. Also, AKs and ARs are both EAWs in MA which causes some constraints.
Click to expand...

I don't see the constraints... you either have a license to buy/own one or
you don't. End of constraint. [grin]

As far as the "rooney" goes (eg, junk you attach to a rifle) think long and
hard about just how much of that is "viable" or not. The more rooney
the more weight. I've had an AR for over a month now and so far
have resisted the temptation to attach crap to it... I like the fact that it is
very light weight.

-Mike
 
The SKS has only two clear advantages:

1. It is the cheapest of the rifles in question; and

2. It only requires an FID card.

That said, if you have an LTC, get a gun worthy of it.
 
Agree with Milsurps! Get an AK. Built to have a low learning curve, work in all sorts of crappy environments, have a little more power than a .223, OK 200 yard accuracy, and they are built to take a beating.

Re: ammo shortages, etc. - Find a deal on a case and buy it. Store it until you shoot it.
 
Another advantage of the SKS (one that I'm planning on taking advantage of) is that you can order one with a C&R and leave it encased in cosmoline for as long as you like/need...
 
drgrant said:
I don't see the constraints... you either have a license to buy/own one or
you don't. End of constraint. [grin]
Click to expand...
Not exactly, at least as I understand the current MA EAWB. Because an SKS does not have a detachable magazine it is not subject to EAWB restrictions. It is my understanding that one can put all kinds of "evil features" on them like flash hiders, pistol grips, front handgrips and adjustable stocks. There are legal limits on what can be put on AKs and ARs because they have detachable magazines. This assumes that enough can be changed to take the SKS out of C&R status (another discussion)
As far as the "rooney" goes (eg, junk you attach to a rifle) think long and
hard about just how much of that is "viable" or not. The more rooney
the more weight. I've had an AR for over a month now and so far
have resisted the temptation to attach crap to it... I like the fact that it is
very light weight.

-Mike
Click to expand...
Then as you say, the question really is whether one should...[thinking]
 
Thor67 said:
Agree with Milsurps! Get an AK. Built to have a low learning curve, work in all sorts of crappy environments, have a little more power than a .223, OK 200 yard accuracy, and they are built to take a beating.

Re: ammo shortages, etc. - Find a deal on a case and buy it. Store it until you shoot it.
Click to expand...
Is there enough of a supply to be able to shoot it enough to maintain some proficiency? I don't plan to buy a safe queen.
 
Milsurps 4 Me said:
Don't waste your time with aftermarket SKS parts, especially anything magazine related, even the fixed ones. Theres a reason why the people on Survivor's SKS boards are pleading with Tapco to come out with a USA made fixed mag because their products are some of the only ones that actually work. The biggest complaint is that there aren't enough US made parts to legally alter an SKS without changing the fixed magazine to a US made one.
Even if a reliable company like Tapco did come out with a working US made fixed mag, I wouldn't trust it in a rifle I may have to depend on for survival.
Click to expand...
This is the biggest concern I have with the SKS approach; can enough of it be changed to make it US compliant and it still be reliable: Some say yes, some say no.

Another idea I've considered is to make a new sear, trigger and disconnector (or hammer). I've got some basic machining capabilities and have an acquantance with a CNC setup. It's my understanding that these parts are pretty simple on an SKS. Then again, this is sounding like more and more work.

Still [thinking]
 
Plenty of 7.62 x 39 ammo around IMO.

There are quite a few gun stores in the Winchendon area (w/in 30 mins.) Try Match Shot in Gardner, or some of the NH shops.
 
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kevin9 said:
Not exactly, at least as I understand the current MA EAWB. Because an SKS does not have a detachable magazine it is not subject to EAWB restrictions.
Click to expand...

Yes, but if you hack the SKS enough, it too becomes a legal problem.

It is my understanding that one can put all kinds of "evil features" on them like flash hiders, pistol grips, front handgrips and adjustable stocks. There are legal limits on what can be put on AKs and ARs because they have detachable magazines.
Click to expand...

And that's a problem, why? Yeah, the law sucks, but it doesn't
prevent you from having a mostly usable rifle.

BTW, a "front handgrip" is not an evil feature. I don't know where ya
pulled that one from. (At least not in terms of a rifle... when it comes
to a handgun, there are a couple of possibilities, but it's not relevant
when talking about rifles. A VFG/barrel shroud is not an evil part on
any rifle. )

I guess my point was, is that even a "ban compliant" AR or an AK is still
a way better choice for an SHTF gun than an SKS is, if you can
legally buy it. If you're concerned about having the "evil features" you
can just get a preban gun and dodge the issue altogether.

-Mike
 
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Ammo aside, I think there are some good reasons for an SKS. Cost is one. Also, the Russians designed and built them to be rugged, reliable, and simple to operate. In normal states, someone could buy a few SKS rifles and have them salted around the house and even use one as a truck rifle and still not approach the cost of one AR. Nor are you going to be upset if the finish or furniture gets a bit beat up. They're collectibles, but they are also practical self defense rifles.

Gary
 
drgrant said:
BTW, a "front handgrip" is not an evil feature. I don't know where ya
pulled that one from. (At least not in terms of a rifle... when it comes
to a handgun, there are a couple of possibilities, but it's not relevant
when talking about rifles. A VFG/barrel shroud is not an evil part on
any rifle. )
Click to expand...
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that a front handgrip, or a handguard that totally surrounds the barrel, were considered assault weapon features. Doing a quick Google it appears that a front handgrip could be an issue for semiauto pistols, but not rifles. I couldn't find anything about the barrel shroud. Thanks for the correction.
I guess my point was, is that even a "ban compliant" AR or an AK is still
a way better choice for an SHTF gun than an SKS is, if you can
legally buy it. If you're concerned about having the "evil features" you
can just get a preban gun and dodge the issue altogether.

-Mike
Click to expand...
I think I'm starting to lean towards the AR, if I can afford it. A pre-ban gun would be nice, but isn't there a price premium on such guns?
 
kevin9 said:
I think I'm starting to lean towards the AR, if I can afford it. A pre-ban gun would be nice, but isn't there a price premium on such guns?
Click to expand...

Prebans do have a price increase, especially in MA... but an
end-around to the price issue though is to find a preban lower on
someplace like arfcom's equipment exchange, get it transferred in,
and put an upper of your choice on it. Verified preban (eg,
verified that it was made into a rifle of some sort before 9/13/94) lowers
can often be found for less than $500 or so.


-Mike
 
kevin9 said:
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that a front handgrip, or a handguard that totally surrounds the barrel, were considered assault weapon features. Doing a quick Google it appears that a front handgrip could be an issue for semiauto pistols, but not rifles. I couldn't find anything about the barrel shroud. Thanks for the correction.
Click to expand...

You read correctly the first time (well... sort'a).

The revised AWB that the anti's submitted to Congress last year added the barrel shroud feature to the list of "evil features" and dropped the bayonet lug and flash suppressor from the list.

S 645

`(D) DETACHABLE MAGAZINE RIFLES- A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a threaded barrel;

`(iii) a pistol grip;

`(iv) a forward grip; or

`(v) a barrel shroud.
Click to expand...
 

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