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SKS or AR15?
- Thread starter kevin9
- Start date
Thats why Germany never tested Switzerland.![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Yup. They side stepped it and went after a weaker neighbor.
TonyD
One Shot One Maggie's Drawers
Don't kid yourself. The roving thugs have the same weapons that roving thugs have all over the U.S. The only difference is that you law-abiding folks in Mass have been unConstitionally denied the right to own similar arms. They are DEFINATELY smart enough to know that they have more firepower than they are likely to encounter. This is why crime is more rampant in communistic states with "progressive gun control".
I'm not kidding myself. You misunderstood my post. Let me simplify it for you.
A Katrina-type situation happens in Mass and armed thugs are out to loot/steal. They may be well-armed, they may not; that's not the point. They know - because this is Massachusetts - that the occupants of most of the houses they approach will be unarmed. They walk into a development with ten houses. They loot house #1, house #2, house #3, and house #4 without encountering any armed resistance. On the way up to house #5, someone sticks a firearm out the window and takes a shot at them.
What do they do? Do they risk death and assault the house anyway, against an unknown number of opponents armed with who-knows-what, or do they turn around and continue to harvest the "low hanging fruit" on the rest of the street, and then move on to the next street?
TonyD
One Shot One Maggie's Drawers
I did not mean to imply that "you" were kidding yourself. It was meant in general.
Your third paragraph in your quote above says it all. All forms take the path of least resistance.
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You misinterpreted my comments-
I never stated that gun confiscation could not occur at all, I know damn
well that it has. I've seen the videos and know the mentality of the
government. What I was getting at is every scenario in which one would
need a rifle to protect themselves in is NOT the same, and not every city
that gets hit by a disaster is going to have a couple of morons like Eddie
Compass or Ray Nagin running their city and issuing orders to the police to
steal lawfully owned property. As Jose mentions, FL and other places where
there have been disasters, these kinds of things have not been
done, and people had no trouble keeping their guns, and staying at home.
Further, you also basically insinuate that the owner of a given rifle under
such circumstances does not have an out- as if the omnipotent gun
confiscation squads are really going to be able to steal your weapon(s). The
truth of the matter is, they'll only take them if you let them. And you can
often dodge the issue without resorting to violence, as well. It just takes
a bit of resourcefulness or pre-planning. Usually when something bad
is about to happen (like home evictions and gun confiscation) you can
smell it coming and take appropriate action. That action can take about
a dozen different forms.
I just think that your presumption that one should not buy a rifle
merely because some thug from the government -might- try to take
it away form you is absurd, that is all. It's not that much different
than saying that a woman shouldn't have a gun because a criminal might
take it away from her and use it against her.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
-Mike
kevin9
NES Member
As the OP let's bring this back close to topic. Thanks to tele_mark and MrTwigg I've now had a chance to try out a Yugo SKS and AK-47 (SAR-1). I must say I prefer the AK over the SKS. It's a bit lighter, handier in balance, and the ergonomics with the pistol grip fits me better. Still have yet to try an AR, but for the moment I'm leaning towards an AK to help encourage thugs to move along in the event of a sociatal emergency.
Kevin - Come out to Shirley on the 29th and you can try my AR. I've owned or tried all three and I like the AR the best - and it's not even close. Of course, you can by two each of the SKS and AK for the price of 1 AR.
kevin9
NES Member
Thanks Jim for letting me try your AR. Now I know why people just have to have one. It's clearly the best of the 3 in terms of handling, and I'm sure for accuracy too.
That's the rub. I found the AK much better for me than the SKS (or the Mosin-Nagant, thanks W'Beard), and the AR better than the AK. However, I'm not sure the difference is worth the extra price for the AR, at least for me right now.
My plan now I'm thinking is to get an AK for my SHTF rifle. I still may get a stripped AR lower receiver, just to spite the
![[devil]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/015.gif "Devil [devil]")
, and then register it if it looks like there is going to be a ban, but I just can't justify the cost for a full rifle (yet).Thanks all for your input and help.
It was good meeting you today Kevin and I'm glad you liked the AR. There's one more thing you might want to keep in mind: Ammo availability.
Since that crap weasel Clinton banned, by executive order, the importation of ammo from China (and the ATF has classified the Chinese steel core ammo as "armor piercing) almost all of the 7.62 x 39 that you'll need to feed either an SKS or AK is made in Russia. If the Russians somehow run afoul of .gov, it is not inconceivable that the importation of Russian ammo could also be banned. After all, it already happened with China.
In addition, not too long ago there was a shortage of 7.62 x 39 ammo. For a while it was pretty hard to find. I haven't seen this problem with .223 (or 5.56x45). Just one more thing to consider.
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Remember when that much 7.62X39 ammo was only worth $40?? Those were the days.Don't even own an SKS or a 7.62X39, yet I have half a case of ammo that's all on clips!
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Arrrr
-Weer'd Beard
kevin9
NES Member
As you said today, the answer of course is to get both.
I'm quite sure that will happen, particularly if go ahead and get the lower. The only question is when.There's another argument for getting an AR at some point. My DW is not a gun person (yet) but every time I describe firing one of these rifles she asks how much does it weigh. She's tried my .22 PCP air rifle once or twice and found it a too heavy. The AK is bit lighter than my air rifle and your AR definitely is. If I am going to get her into shooting rifles, particularly anything larger than a .22 then it needs to be something like an AR.
Wow, don't let her shoot Derek's then. That thing weighed a ton! Let her try the Bushmaster instead.
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Only legal ways were:
- To have bought it privately in MA before 1998, where you did the Blue Cards. MSP/CHSB burned all the blue cards, so they aren't in anyone's database. Anything ever bought from a dealer has a 4473 on it.
- Move into MA with it, having bought it privately as a resident of a "free state" where no paperwork was required on the prior transfer.
Those were the only legal ways. I have some guns like the first example . . . we filed the paperwork properly upon transfer, the state chose to destroy said paperwork.
- To have bought it privately in MA before 1998, where you did the Blue Cards. MSP/CHSB burned all the blue cards, so they aren't in anyone's database. Anything ever bought from a dealer has a 4473 on it.
- Move into MA with it, having bought it privately as a resident of a "free state" where no paperwork was required on the prior transfer.
Those were the only legal ways. I have some guns like the first example . . . we filed the paperwork properly upon transfer, the state chose to destroy said paperwork.
Actually Jim, you can thank Olympic arms for that snafu. While the ban
was already in place, it was Olympic's introduction of the OA93 that actually
triggered the ban. Oly was notified by various gunwriters that this would
happen, but this was widely ignored by them, and they advertised it and
the like anyways, and set off the ATF smoke alarm, so to speak.
http://www.thegunzone.com/762x39.html
It probably would have happened anyways, but I still hold Olympic arms
accountable for that debacle- because everyone told them the OA93 pistol
was a bad idea and they still went and did it anyways. So as a result of
their greed for profits everyone had to pay more for ammo, at least back
then. On top of that they never ended up selling the pistol, but by then
they had already pissed off the ATF and it was too late.
FWIW, it probably won't happen with russian ammo, because their current
factories don't mass produce anything with a steel core, at least not for
export purposes.
-Mike
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There is no such thing as a paperless SKS unless someone built the reciever
in their basement or the gun was imported so long ago that the original
FFL burned the records. If any federal licensee imported it or manufactured
it, someone has paper on it, somewhere, which invariably leads to somebody.
In the grand scheme of things wether it's 4473ed or not really doesn't
matter. There are -millions- of the things laying around at gun
dealers, and the operation required to raid all those buyers would be
massive in scope. At that point they might as well just do hitler-style
house to house searches. As much as I hate federal gun laws, a 4473
really isn't an effective "confiscation device" so to speak.
-Mike
FWIW, Kevin, Bushmaster makes a line of carbon fiber guns (I think pro ord
does too) that are like less than 5 pounds unloaded. The downside I see
with these models is that they don't have a dustcover, and they might have
a bit more "muzzle whip" than a regular AR does, but that's just a wild assed
guess on my part.
-Mike
If someone chose to build their own AK with a parts kit and homemade reciever, would they need to submit paperwork on it?
I agree completely. I would just feel much better knowing that the government has no records that indicate that I own guns. The 4473's and such don't really matter anyway because anyone with a Class A would be the first victim in a Hitleresque raid.
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The rules are that if you build it, when you are done it must be registered with an FA-10 within 7 days.
calsdad
NES Member
I have been following this thread since it started and I should have posted this before - but it did not dawn on me until I looked over and saw the book sitting on my nightstand and realized that much of what is being debated here has been covered and analyzed pretty well.
Get "Bostons Gun Bible" :
http://www.amazon.com/Bostons-Gun-Bible-Boston-Party/dp/1888766069
http://www.javelinpress.com/bostons_gun_bible.html
Some of it may be over the top for some people - but he goes thru all the options, and gives you a lot to think about. As far as the Russian stuff goes he points out that if/when the SHTF the goverment might clamp down on the ammunition for any foreign made weapon - so getting something cheap now might make it useless later. Unless you want to stock up on a huge amount of ammo you should stick with commonly available (in this country) calibres.
I highly recommend buying this book - both for the technical - and the political opinion aspects.
Get "Bostons Gun Bible" :
http://www.amazon.com/Bostons-Gun-Bible-Boston-Party/dp/1888766069
http://www.javelinpress.com/bostons_gun_bible.html
Some of it may be over the top for some people - but he goes thru all the options, and gives you a lot to think about. As far as the Russian stuff goes he points out that if/when the SHTF the goverment might clamp down on the ammunition for any foreign made weapon - so getting something cheap now might make it useless later. Unless you want to stock up on a huge amount of ammo you should stick with commonly available (in this country) calibres.
I highly recommend buying this book - both for the technical - and the political opinion aspects.
IANAL but; If someone did and if they were caught, either directly or indirectly, the consequences would be severe, permentently affecting one's ablility to lawfully posess firearms at the very least.
SemiAutoSam
Banned
AR15 100% you can do alot more with the AR platform.
Get one of those modular lowers and you can run with Calibers from 22 to 30/06.
And then there is the lower that accepts a AK mag. Thats a HOOT.
Get one of those modular lowers and you can run with Calibers from 22 to 30/06.
And then there is the lower that accepts a AK mag. Thats a HOOT.
You can build your own semi-AK out of raw parts, as long as the end
product is a "Title I" rifle and not an SBR or the like. That's the fed
end. As far as MA goes, all you really have to do is register it on an FA-10
once it's capable of being fired.
-Mike
SemiAutoSam
Banned
I don't know the legalities of it in MASS but here in California we have been buying 80% AR15 lowers and finishing them ourselves. with a JIG and some patience you can have a NON 4473 firearm rather quickly.
you should be able to get all of the other parts you need to make it function via mail order.
you should be able to get all of the other parts you need to make it function via mail order.
kevin9
NES Member
Gotta say that's nice, that's another which has been on my list for awhile. Please bring it to one of the shoots so I can fondle that puppy !
Iffin ya don't mind my askin', could ya pm me the price range EM's asking ?
That's true up to the point a private transaction takes place. Once John Smith sells it to John Doe, paperwork ends there.
Anybody with any sense would get a driver's liscense from somebody they sell to, but there is no law saying they HAVE to.
kevin9
NES Member
I do believe that is state-dependent. AFAIK MA residents are required by MA law (
![[puke]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/023.gif "Puke [puke]")
) to submit a registration form for private acquisitions, even if the transaction takes place out of state before the gun is brought into state. Once it comes into the state it must be registered.
